Why does it have to be so much about "owning" people? I think mcvey and Bummy both make good points. The information is correct but the opinion side is just opinion. It is not about who is right or who is wrong it is about making a case and letting others decide. If it is presented convincingly or unconvincingly it is for others to decide. Marciano knocked all level of fighters out. Nobody needs to hit harder to knock anyone out and that goes for a lot of fighters. Without going into a coma, you cant be anymore knocked out than knocked out. Incapacitating someone long enough to prevent them from beating a ten count is all that is required. World class ability to knock out a world class fighter is a universal talent. Saying one guy dosnt hit as hard because he did not knock everyone out is like saying he is the same as all the other guys who can't knock everyone out. Nobody knocked everyone out. But a knock out punch is a knockout punch.
I read Klompton's posts and yours on that site , it was about as competitive as Holmes v Cobb, with you being Randy. Sorry mate he ripped you to bits. Klompton isnt "my partner," we have had some heated arguments between ourselves, we are both," solo performers." I suppose both of us disagreeing with you means that there's another conspiracy to deny Bert Gilroy his rightful place in the sun as a world class fighter shamefully excluded from a title shot by the powers that be.atsch The material out there on your Grandfather is largely provided by you, as are all the excuses for his many losses against journeymen fighters. I wouldn't have even mentioned it again , if you hadn't seen fit to put a snidey little comment in on this thread.:nono ps Good luck with the vote tomorrow , I sincerely hope it's a Yes!
This thread is about assessing Marciano as a dynamite one punch ko artist,which I contend he was not. I think I emphatically rebutted the points Bummy made and allowed myself a bit of banter with him at the end of it. I would be surprised if he took umbrage at that.
"Matthews was never rated at heavyweight" He was rated in the monthly ratings. For example, in the August, 1952 issue of The Ring these are heavyweight rankings for the period ended June 12, 1952. Champion--Jersey Joe Walcott 1--Rocky Marciano 2--Ezzard Charles 3--Roland LaStarza 4--Coley Wallace 5--Clarence Henry 6--Harry Matthews 7--Johnny Williams 8--Bob Dunlap 9--Cesar Brion 10-Jimmy Bivins
there you go again mcvey "material" (?). NO not referring to my material I'm referring to The REPORTS & Writers, hundreds of them, as I always have!!! as to the Scottish Referendum - I couldn't give a toss about it! I am personally more interested in Equality, Well Being, and the Salvation of my Fellowman. Sorry to surprise you with 'my' more deeper concerns for people, life and our time in this world!
I dont want to get into Gilroy fantasy land again.I'll just repeat my previous two questions to you which remain unanswered. NAME ONE WORLD CLASS MAN GILROY BEAT.[ World class as in being rated when he beat them]. SHOW ONE REPORT REFERRING TO GILROY AS WORLD CLASS.
the Ring British Ratings too Reports about said fights, wins, draws and/or loses. I have cited ALL of this from the very start of my project, it's all out there.
you are just a bitter cantankerous old fart who is biased against Marciano, Lastarza was 53-3 and beat everyone he lost to except Marciano, Walcott was an experienced and cagey well conditioned pin-point power puncher and Ezz was fresh off of 2 explosive KO's,Ezz,Walcott Moore and Lastarza beat most of the big men who could have been relevant and Joe Louis was still a dangerous 6'2 220lb ATG who had only lost 2 fights out of 68 fights,Vingo 6'4 and durable, Marciano ruined many, some by one punch others by a multitude but to call him not a puncher is mindless. My point in bringing out Foreman was that he fought mostly guys that were not even top 100 fighters and the few that he did fight that were higher up in the ratings he struggled to put some out is that because he could not punch? Lewis also went 10 with Levi Billips who was Ko'd in 1 by Corrie Sanders does that mean Lewis could not punch? Marciano was the top puncher lb for lb in his division and one of the best puncher regardless of size maybe Langford and Dempsey are close lb for lb but weather it took one punch or many he still KO'd 43 men in 49 wins, pretty good I can see why Mendoza wanted to ***** slap you and others want to punk slap you, you biased old dark fart of a cantankerous old he/she
I like Marciano but have no wish to suck his *****. Nothing bitter about me, I have an excellent life , more than adequate funds to do what I like. My recent intinerary: Friday London, apply for my visa to Vietnam in Nov, [already paid for our holiday to Venice in March for my partner's birthday ],then on to Cambridge Circus for the jazz at a pub . Saturday ,Grandaughter's barbecue birth day bash.Sunday ,Jazz again. Monday quiet night in with partner.Tuesday went to see A Streetcar Named Desire, terrific night! Tonight, watching a film at home," The Tree Of Wooden Clogs", Thursday shopping and family night. Friday, back in London to collect visa and visit the National gallery, then a few pints, before catching the train back home and a brief stop at my local club for some more beer. Saturday, after taking the dogs out, a few beers in my local .Sunday down at the jazz again with my mates. I have a wonderful time, a damnsight better than you by the sounds of it you twisted twat. What the **** would I be bitter about ? Back to the subject. Lastarza was a well managed boxer who studiously avoided many contenders his record emphatically shows this. Three fights before facing Marciano for the title he lost to a 179lbs journeyman. He was an average heavyweight in a poor era. Neither Walcott nor Charles were great heavyweights, and both were past prime. Louis was a relic when Marciano faced him. At no point have I said Marciano was not a puncher, can you actually read competently? Foreman beat those men when he was a green kid . The other names you provided were when Foreman was 45, 46,47,48. Fatuous examples of a desperate mind . My examples of Marciano were when he was bang in his prime and the reigning heavyweight champion . Your comparison is not only nonsensical it is downright stupid! Lewis was a young improving fighter when he faced Billlups and Ocasio again not the finished article that Marciano was. Again a stupid analogy. Now on to important things Mendoza **** himself when I took him up on his challenge to fight me .When he said he was coming to the UK I sent him 3 pms asking for details of flights and arrival times. He did not reply, neither did he answer the PUBLIC THREAD ENTITLED FAO MENDOZA , in spite of the fact that he was on this site that day. I did not know Mendoza had even been in the UK until he was safely back in the US; LOOK IT UP! Mendoza will tell any and everyone that he asked me for my email so he could arrange the fight. That is a LIE which I publicly swear to on my parents grave and my grandchildren's lives. Here is the truth . Prior to our dispute he and I had a debate concerning Joe Choynski's fight with Jack Johnson. He said he had an article concerning it and offered to e mail it to me I said I wasn't comfortable giving him my e mail address and he sent it to someone else. As God is my witness that is the truth. Mendoza is a LIAR and a COWARD and you are ten times a fool for believing him because you lost your temper with me. Mendoza wouldn't slap me ,and neither would anyone else on here, not without instant retaliation and that goes for you too Mr Angry. Anyone with designs in that direction is free to pm me I'm happy to accomodate them, though I sincerely doubt I can stand up long against a youngster , but I have never backed down when called out . Just a proviso please no empty challenges like Mendoza's, no bluffs for the benefit of the Forum. Now you know what you can do regarding our contretemps don't you. You dont like me fine.I couldn't give a good **** . You just came out in your true colours , in my country we have a saying for it , we call it spitting your dummy out.:good
I must have missed the part of Foreman's comeback when he knocked out a legit super heavyweight. In fact, even in his first career he didn't KO a legit super heavyweight. I guess Foreman wasn't a dynamite puncher either Also using Peltara and Wlacott in comparison is hardly fair. Completely Different levels of fighter in my view. Nevertheless you've defended your points well Mcvey. This thread was an entertaining read
McVey is biased against long tenured champions in This content is protected ...anyone notice a pattern. He uses double standards all the time. He uses his own math. He'll ignore legitimate data and when pressed will go off tangent. If you keep pasting him he'll become angry and go ad hominem. Sometimes he'll regurgitate bad information from books to prove his point, but omit points that do not coincide to his point of view. PS: Levi Billips was a great example!
Peralta and Walcott are completely different levels of fighters. I think Peralta was more durable! At 38 he held Lyle to a draw, and in 2 fights with him was never floored. Walcott was floored in quite a few fights and not always by big punchers. When Foreman made his comeback he was 12 years older than Marciano was when he retired ,hardly a fair comparison. I didn't bring up the comparison, Bummy did. He tried to show that because a 20years old ,15 fight Foreman did not stop a very durable, cleve,r defensive 90 fight Peralta , who was only stopped 3 times 119 fights, in my argument must be flawed. I pointed out that Marciano's challengers that he failed to stop/had trouble with, were facing a boxer in his prime, and moreover one who was the reigning world champion. Not a green 20 year old novice. I think that was a fair argument ,and it obviously got up Bummy's nose judging by his response.