Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Jacques81, Nov 18, 2023.
Someone's opened a can of worms
What about his sub-200 resume? If you ignore that and apply it across the board for all historical HWs then the resumes of the likes of Louis, Marciano and co suddenly look awfully thin.
And Fury then went and ate them.
That fat ****.
If Usyk win with Fury he would be:
1. Great amateur with Olimpic Gold Medal
2. Unification probably best cruserweight division in History, all at rivals territory.
3. Unification Heavyweight in pretty strong era beating 2 best stars.
He will be one of the greatest boxer of all time for sure and we all can be proud we can watch his carrer.
Usyk has had a straight run to the HW top.
Other guys before him put in more work and overcame more obstacles to reach the summit.
He's great but an ATG? Don't think so.
Not unless he cleans the division out.
That might be enought to bump Holy from the 10 spot. Hard to say.
As much as I love Usyk, and think he will beat Fury, he hasn't fought enough at heavyweight to enter into the ATG top 10 IMO, even if I think he belongs there on skills/etc
This has been a weak era of heavyweights, with a lot of ducking and marinating rather than fights having taken place when they should have.
I don't think it's rose-tinted spectacles, but think that Tyson/Holyfield/Lewis era had much more competetion, with many more proven fighters that would have probably been champs in this era.
That's not to take anything away from Usyk, if he beats Fury to be undisputed, then he automatically goes into the discussion based on achievements alone - but the resume is thin at HW; and how could it not be?
Usyk has fought in an era where those sub 200 pounders are considered Cruiserweights, so I'm going to exclusively consider them Cruiserweights, even if they are indeed bigger than some smaller guys that were called Heavyweights back then. That said, they would indeed help Usyk rise up in a HW list, if we do include them. Wouldn't see good cases for someone like Dempsey, Liston, or Marciano being above him.
But you're way off the mark in putting Louis in that list, resume wise, he and Ali are so ahead of everyone else, including Usyk, that it's not even funny. We're talking about a guy that has more wins over top 10 ranked fighters and more title defenses of the lineal/undisputed championship than Usyk has had fights in his career. I know sheer stats aren't everything, but that's an astronomical difference, and Louis doesn't lack in quality names either.
No chance does usyk crack the all time top 10 p4p list, no way in hell
He hasn't the opponents or the resume to be held at that level
If you said top 20 or 30? Then possibly, but he's not a top 10 guy
Floyd and manny aren't top 10 guys and they have WAY better resumes than usyk.
You are definitely overrating him Imo pal, but you do you, it's your opinion. But I doubt many away from this forum would have him with the top 10 greatest ever to lace them up
Yep, sure didn't fury lose his virginity to McDermott all those years ago?
Or didn't he get beat up by the mma guy a few weeks back?
Ducked Wlad rematch
Which one is it guys, please make up your minds
Is Fury this big fat useless lump you all proclaim?
Or is he suddenly about to turn into an invincible demigod should Usyk prevail?
Either Fury is great, or he is not?
Can't have it both ways unfortunately.
Personally Ngannou effectively beating him has taken the shine off usyk if he wins
If he wins? So what he just got beat up by a novice in his first fight
Both. Fury is a fantastic talent, he had all the potential to become an ATG HW. It's incredible what the man has in terms of natural talent, physical attributes, skills and whatnot.
But what he achieved and how he used his talents/managed his career is laughable and disgusting at the same time. This guy owed to boxing and most importantly the fans to face the best of his era - and at 35, he hasn't done that and now it's too old to meaningfully do anything about it. He had the means to go places only Lewis could from the UK before, and his last two fights were Chisora and a boxing debutant - both of whom were Fury's choices instead of top level opposition. Absolutely despicable.
So that's my answer. Fury is both one of the biggest talents in HW boxing of the last 20-30 years, and one of the worst HW champions with the poorest legacy so far.
On a different note, I always think at first that it's Mel Gibson on your avatar I know it's Roy Keane but the beard always makes me think of Gibson first.
That must make John McDermott and Francis Ngannou demi gods too!
The yanks that give me abuse always ask why do I have Mel Gibson as my av lol
I'm a 39 year old Irish, United fan
I idolise no man,but Keane and cantona come close lol
He would have to do more at heavy I would think, as good as that win would be. I hate trying to rate guys in an all time sense while they have opposition they fought still active and while they themselves are still active.
Give it time to properly evaluate.
Usyk is bigger or equal in size to all of these HWs except Lennox. He is as talented as that elite group and fights as a lefty. He can defeat or be very competitive to all of those 6, except maybe Lewis.
Don't think Frazier is a must top 10. Joe's title defenses were mostly vs. no hopers. Then George demolished him. He gets overrated b/c of the Ali trilogy. Since Ali is a demi God to many. The thinking is that if Ali goes life & death with a fighter 3X, then they must also be very great. Many boxing experts think Ali never truly beat Norton. Is Norton a must top 10 all time HW? No.
If you go by true H2H, no adjusting for size by era, Usyk can achieve top HW status.