If you haven't seen LEGENDARY NIGHTS, here you go

Thats pretty much how I see it Slip. Leonard got those first 4 rounds at virtually no "cost" in terms getting hit or at least roughed up. He got his eye in, his confidence up and 4 rounds start in a first to 7 rounds fight. Ray was always going to win the first couple of rounds but Hagler should have punished him in the process and that would have paid dividends later on in the fight.

The Petronellis were shocking in that fight, every round was "your looking great champ" when they must have known that at the very least the fight was in the balance. Haglers/ Petronellis lack of tactical nouse is the main reason I favour Monzon in a mythical H2H, could Marvin adapt if he couldn't get past the jab and right cross of Monzon?

 

All I'm saying is, it's not like he hadn't trained for years. His body was still in good nick.

Monzon would be far less mobile than Leonard; a peak Hagler would be able to find him. His ability to change pace would see Monzon find it hard to set his consistently as he always did.

 

TBH Flea I wasn't using Leonard as the technical blueprint to beat Hagler just showing that that fight and the Duran fight showed flaws in Haglers tactics.

 

How about the pace they started at before that? :think

 

I think Hagler gave Duran too much respect.

 

I also had Hagler winning the Duran fight comfortably in rounds.

 

Thats the bottom line.

 

'Kitcken sink' being the operative words.

 

That's the first 4 rounds and 3 of the last 8. Job done.

Hagler did come on but he was missing like crazy for the most part. I think most of the people who think Hagler won are of the opinion that Leonard didn't 'take the title' which is a train of thought i've never understood. Some people will tell you Leonard won on points, but didn't 'deserve to win' lol. Kind of similar to some people's views on De la Hoya/Trinidad...

I'd take Monzon over Hagler aswell. Monzon was so deceptive, he doesn't look that great on film, but he really was all that and then some. He raised his level depending on the opposition and had no difficulty imposing his style on seeming more rounded or technically better opponents. Just a beast.

Very heavy handed with a lot of ring swagger, was very disciplined and had this weird body rhythm that off-set people. IMO his secret was he punched when you thought he wasn't in a position to, he also followed through with every shot, which gave him bludgening power and his mentality was so strong. He was such a cool, calm killer without any emotion.

Monzon also had an underrated boxing brain, he could make adjustments. I've seen in some of his footage, him throwing change-ups. By that i mean he would change the speed of his punches to lull his opponents to sleep.

I think he would edge Hagler in a close decision, it took time to take the sting off Monzon's shots and judge his range. Once he got in a groove it was very difficult to get the better of him. I see Monzon taking the early rounds and then a war breaking out.

 

I can't see Monzon takig the early rounds at all Slip, he's always struck me as a guy that took a few rounds to get going but who was basically unshiftable once he was.

I see Hagler being hard for him to keep his rhythm going against. He will co
e through Monzons shots (heavy handed bit hardly monsterous IMO, Benevenuti might disagree though ;-)) and he can change between using his own jab, upper body movement and boxing ability, plus his infightig ability, to cut past that jab and outwork Monzon sufficiently enough to take some of the late rounds, which are the hardest rounds to snag from Monzon.

Hagler loved awkward beasts, he fed on them.

Great fight mind you. I just think Hagler has more he can go into. Monzons default setting, as great and deceptively effective as it was, is all he had.

Totally different argument but Haglers resume takes a nice **** on Monzons as well IMO.

 

Monzon wasn't a fast starter, but neither was Hagler and i just think Marvin would have a harder time of it early. Marvin was cautious and wary early against people he percieved as threats if he didn't think he could blow them away. Monzon's aura and mentality would make Marvin hesitant to engage from the get go. Monzon's jab and range makes the difference early and then Hagler picks up the pace. The thing about Monzon is he was hard to get the better of for long periods, whenever the opponent started to get on top he would invariably come straight back with something better. That makes an impact on the judges because he tended to have the last say in back and forths.

I believe Monzon was a better strategist than Hagler. I don't see how Hagler outboxes him, don't see him outhustling him and there's definitely ganna be no KO's here.

 

I just think his superior offensive variety would see him capable of outworking Monzon. I think once Hagler had tasted the power, he'd have little trouble walkig through Monzon. Monzon, who's odd leans and small shifts in distance could cause ANYONE serious hassle, does one thing brilliantly, I just think Hagler has more to dip into in a war, which is invariant how it will end up.

Agree to disagree by the looks of it :good I just see Hagler being more intense as the fight goes on and winning more rounds, not saying he'd smash him to bits or anything :good

 

One I've watched a couple of times in the last few days is Pryor vs Arguello..... both come across really well, even though Alexis isn't in it.

As an aside, I think the Time of Our Lives programmer are excellent. One of my faves was the 1991 relay team, Kriss Akabusi is hilarious.

 

I'm glad you agree with me over Monzon-Hagler Slip. I always respect Fleas opinion on stuff like this so its nice to know I havn't gone totally senile over this matchup.

 

Hmm...maybe it is I that is losing the plot then?!?

I'm going to re-evaluate all I've got of both men...always a pleasureable experience (except from Monzon-Griffith II, the worst contest I've ever witnessed bar Audley-Haye)