Ike Ibeabuchi vs Jack Dempsey

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, May 27, 2018.

  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    So in your opinion Cooper would have fared better and survived longer against Bowe and Foreman if they had been willing to enter into wars with him? That would have played to his strengths?
     
  2. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Welcome to the forum. No offense, but why should we speculate about what fighters would have looked like with the training methods of other eras? These threads have always been about thinking about the fighters as they actually existed, not as they might have been with better or worse training, nutrition, or skill development. That's already highly speculative, without having to imagine a fictitious 90s-era Dempsey who decides to bulk up (instead of cutting down...). If you think that's unfair to some of the smaller heavyweights of yesteryear, well that's sort of the point that some of us have been raising over the years.
     
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  3. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    OK. On this we agree.

    I believe it is something called "money".
     
  4. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Moorer and Holyfield were 217 and 210. Bowe and Foreman were 230 and 252. Cooper's weight fluctuated from 208 - 224.

    Bert Cooper is a pretty lousy example for anyone who wants to argue that opponent size doesn't really matter for smallish heavyweight power punchers.
     
  5. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    He did not climb back in...a typewriter helped lift him back onto the ring, which saved his title..Dempsey was seriously buzzed from a right hand. Under modern rules, Dempsey likely loses because of the type writer.
     
  6. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Cooper was last 190 in 1988. He fought Vander in late 91. All of his best performances... Hipp, Holy, Norris were as a heavyweight. He was a natural heavyweight, a natural 215. If he was a natural 190, then Dempsey was a natural 165 like he was during the Kid Blackie days.
     
  7. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    I'm afraid you signed up in vain then, because there is no such thing as "modern training".

    Otiose, amigo.
     
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  8. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    You mean the Dempsey who was starving, sleeping on park benches, going to soup kitchens, walking across the desert for a fight, and getting robbed of his purses by his manager? That Dempsey?

    Put Cooper in those conditions and he wouldn't even be able to fight.
     
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  9. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Theres plenty of reliable sources that a typewriter helped Dempsey back into the ring.

    But you keep telling yourself that Firpo never hurt Dempsey
     
  10. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Typewriters are inanimate objects.
     
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  11. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    How would you know?

    (de ja vu all over again...)
     
  12. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Bowe and Foreman were better fighters than Evander and Moorer. Hence the wins they have over them respectively.
     
  13. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    I see. Nothing to do with size.

    Why squander credibility and good will by pretending that you don't see the obvious?
     
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    Now this I don't buy.

    Cooper was no older than the Dempsey of the Fulton fight (188lbs), when he last fought at 190lbs.

    Then he went from weighing 190lbs to weighing 210lbs in the space of a year.

    I would not compare him to Jack Dempsey, because they are not particularly similar, but he is perhaps a model for what Rocky Marciano could have been.
     
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  15. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Yes, we've been over this. You don't know how negative clams are warranted and you mistakenly think that induction is a logical fallacy.