Nobody knocked out Marion Wilson. A lot of bigger, stronger, harder hitting men than Dempsey tried, McCall, Rahman, Derrick Jefferson, Shannon Briggs, Ray Mercer, Kirk Johnson, Andrew Golota, and Ezra Sellers all fought him and none stopped him.
How about Anthony Wade and Keith Walton? They both saw the final bell. Ten times beat Everton Davis went all the way to round 9 and this was after the Tua fight that supposedly launched Ike into the stratosphere of comparison with ATG men. Everton Davis?? What was going on? Old man Tim Witherspoon beat him one round quicker three years earlier. Did he forget to take his vitamins for that fight?
I'll take the combination Byrd and Tua over a hogfat past-it Langford who was losing to Tate and Wills on a regular basis and the assorted no hopers like Carl Morris, whose greatest contribution to the economy of the sweet science was the wagering on whether he would actually show up to the fight.
Is anyone going to talk about the ko 1 loss to Flynn, Meehan out boxing Dempsey and fights like that? Legacy wise Dempsey by a counrty mile. In the Ring, based on how they match up, I’d favor Ike. Ike last match was age 26 and he did not have a long amateur career. If Tua could not hurt him and Bryd could not avoid him what is a 190 pound attacker who spends most of his energy early going to do? I think Byrd or Tua would rate among Dempsey’s best two wins.
How many fighters ever stopped Wilson in those 20+ defeats? Why highlight the fact that Ike couldn't stop him when nobody else could? Yes, that's more or less how it went. Who's saying any different? Ike's reputation rests on those two fights with Tua and Byrd. That's where his quality came through. Both men were throwing huge bombs throughout the entire fight. That's very evident from the video footage. This content is protected I'd say more heavy leather was thrown in the Ike vs Tua fight than almost any other heavyweight fight on record. Tua's contribution alone would have put it up there.
If Tua could not hurt him? It was a good fight with some really great exchanges but if you know what you are looking at, for as exciting as it was, to deliver that many blows together, they really were not sitting down on their blows. Tua especially. In an effort to match Ike and get through, he would double up on his hook without a proper follow- through. There may have been very little holding but inside they were not hurting each other. Because they were either too close or too square. At times they really were swinging properly but they were not getting those kinds of connections because it was a step up in class for both of them. Seriously this fight gets over hyped. Read this article. http://www.boxingmonthly.com/stories/ibeabuchi-recalls-tua-showdown/ Interestingly Ike backs up what I have always said about the Tua fight. The quantity of punches took away from the quality of the blows landed. He says he wish he threw less punches “and sat down on his punches more”. With the pace they fought at it applies to Tua as well. They were not hitting each other with full leverage.
because he’s supposed to be this guy who can beat Jack Dempsey. But it should not. It’s two fights. no that’s just hyperbole. There was no damage on their faces. Compare Ali and Frazier after their fights! Ike himself says he should have sat down more on his blows in that fight. The pace took away the power in that fight.
Right. The video footage tells the tale. Dempsey floored early by Firpo, knocked backward by Carpientier, and rocked badly by Sharkey. This suggests he would not last more than three rounds of what Ike took from Tua. I also think Ike would rate as the 1st or 2nd best puncher that landed on Dempsey.
I've seen countless fights where Tua knocks his opponent into a dribbling mess with similar shots to the ones he repeatedly hit Ibeabuchi with. He didn't need to swing for the fences to get power. Those short, chopping hooks alone carried tremendous force. Besides, even if Tua wasn't sitting down on his shots, he'd still do a ton more damage than Dempsey ever could. The difference in raw power is staggering.
They fought with punchers gloves back then though. 4-6oz gloves. With 3oz in the cuffs. You can half the number of knockdowns by wearing today’s 10oz gloves.
yes Tua half killed folks when he got them right. Especially if they didn’t see it coming. But in this fight he was not sitting down as much on the punches, hence no marks on his opponent. When fighters can anticipate each other they ride the blows better. And they punch at each other faster in an effort to beat the other guy to the punch. Power suffers when this happens. It was evident in this exciting fight. Ike even says he wish he sat down more on his punches. It is a fact. well he did if he wanted to inflict more damage than he did against Ike Ibeabuchi. All those head shots and not one mark on either fighter? That depends if he is connecting or landing first dosnt it? Tua was one of the hardest punchers of all time, but he would have to cut a lot of weight to match Dempsey for speed wouldn’t he?
Huh? What's Wilson got to do with Ike's chances against Dempsey? What's wrong with rating someone's H2H prowess on two top performances over prime fighters with world class attributes? Those two fights alone tell us more than enough about how this fight would go down, and it wouldn't be pretty for Jack. Neither guy tended to mark up. Tua hardly ever got facial swelling or cuts, no matter how much he was hit. Ike may have felt he could have sat down on his shots more, but that doesn't take away from the fact that both men were throwing very serious, thwacking, head rocking shots the whole night. It was no pitty pat display.
but were they in their prime? Bryd was not yet a champion. Tua yet to score his more important knockouts. And the rest of Ikes career did not forecast even these wins. Between these wins he did not improve on Tim Witherspoon against a common opponent. Oh come on! I know some guys mark up worse than others but everyone marks up. These guys broke all records hitting each other and they didn’t mark up. Then one guy admits he wishes he sat down more. What does that tell you? It means if he had of done that there would have been less punches, slowing the pace. It’s an admission of lacking experience. they did tag each other but if it is anticipated, the punches rolled with, you end up with no real marks or no real damage. I am going to have to disagree with you here in light of Ikes own testament.
Both men spent large portions of the fight fighting in a phonebooth. In situations like that it's relatively easy to get off full power shots because you're already in a position to hit your opponent without having to worry about getting in range. The danger comes in throwing a shot at the same time as your opponent and getting countered, but that's a necessary risk to fighting at close quarters. Tua was also more or less fighting his typical fight, due to the fact that Ike was something of an unknown quantity at that stage. There was no need for him to sacrifice power in an effort to get off first, and that's not something he tended to do anyway. Tua delivered his hardest blows in close, with relatively innocuous looking punches. He knocked Moorer out this way, knocked Wilson unconscious with a single short left hook, nearly decapitated Izon with a similar looking uppercut. When he started swinging for the fences he tended to have less success, a la the Oquendo stoppage. The Ruiz fight is the exception. Tua's handspeed is greatly undervalued, while Dempsey's is somewhat overstated. Besides, was either fighter as fast or slippery as prime Byrd?