In the Ring With Jack Dempsey - Part I: The Making of a Champion

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by apollack, Sep 16, 2020.


  1. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Of course not for nothing..... Excellent pay !
     
  2. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Technically, all top contenders deserve a title shot especially if their credentials surpass those who somehow wound up with a title shot who are far less qualified... but let’s not forget boxing is a business. It’s never pretended to be a sport.. especially in the days before governing bodies and recognised rating systems.
     
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  3. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Get the **** out of here. Such offers are designed as nothing more than a PR attempt to make your fighter look brave when hes ducking his best competition. Its no different than saying: "I'll fight him in the cellar for nothing." Its bull****. Nevermind that Kearns' offer was taken up by Kid Norfolk and as soon as Kid Norfolk made his way to Dempsey's camp Kearns let it be known that they had plenty of sparring. Get a clue before insinuating Wills ducked any of those guys. Greb was a middleweight who made it known clearly that he thought Wills was the best HW in the world. Tunney's own business manager admitted that when they put out the notice that Tunney wanted to challenge Wills they had absolutely no intention of fighting Wills. They just wanted to get Tunney's name mentioned in the newspapers as an alternative to Wills for Dempsey and it worked. This was sworn testimony in court. Gibbons not only ducked Wills but he also ducked Kid Norfolk for years, you know, the guy Wills knocked out in two easy rounds. Godfrey didnt emerge as anything but a fringe contender until mid to late 1925 by which time the New York State Athletic Commission had made it known that Dempsey had to fight Wills or risk being banned/stripped. With Wills that close to a title shot after 6+ years of waiting what would have been the logic behind instead facing Godfrey for the very brief time while Wills was active that Godfrey could pretend to be a contender? That very same summer Wills earned over $50,000 for one fight which was likely well over ten times Godfreys biggest purse. Godfrey brought absolutely nothing to the table to make a fight between he and Wills attractive which is why no promoters who could rub two nickels together ever tried to match them. Its remarkable how fanboys always seem to think that fighters make fights. They dont. Promoters do. The biggest fight out there and the one that was constantly being offered by promoters all over the country and in several other countries was Dempsey-Wills. Period. All Dempsey had to do was say yes but he not only refused instead he more than once took part in elaborate ruses to give the impression he was negotiating the fight in good faith when in fact he was not. Dempsey had no intention of ever fighting Wills because Wills was his most dangerous opponent and the opponent he was least likely to beat from an oddsmakers standpoint. From Dempsey and Kearns’ perspective Wills skin color had nothing to do with why Dempsey wouldnt fight him despite the best efforts of those to characterize the situation as such. All of the advertisements for Birth of a Nation, mentions of the Red Summer, and recaps of Jack Johnsons reign laid on in a ham handed effort to give false context to Dempsey’s duck will not refute the fact that in the eye of the public at large, majority of sporting experts, and majority of print media gave Wills their full support. That says a lot about the direction the sport was moving and how fast. And trying to pigeon hole the fear of Wills who was an intelligent, well spoken, god fearing, family man as a potential second Jack Johnson hence the refusal to fight him is more modern revision than what the public knew or felt about Wills in that era.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2020
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  4. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Funney how dempsey fought men who beat wills and greb isnt it
     
  5. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Funny how Dempsey almost exclusively defended against guys Greb beat or who were too scared to even sit next to him at a fight.
     
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  6. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    " dempsey is the greatest fighter I have ever seen" Langford on dempsey 1922
     
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  7. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I dont believe that stuff of kid Norfolk and dempsey... Like to see the reference for this
     
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  8. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    Shame that he did not live to see Ali, Holmes, Tyson etc..........
    Then he may have given a more realistic appraisal.
     
  9. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I agree. Sounds made up to win the argument. Considering the source, this would not surprise me.
     
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  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Footnote, by that time Sam was half blind.
     
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  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Dillon vs Dempsey would have been a good fight in 1916-1917.
     
  12. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yep !.........some posters here get sooo angry about this fantasy stuff its unbelievable.... Youd think dempsey beat up on there grand fathers and his friends...Very angry people I guess..... And dempsey was a good guy.... Larry gains colored heavyweight champ , who actually sparred with dempsey, said he liked and admired him
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
  13. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    It's astonishing ..I have read quotes that Wills was another slow, lumbering clod in the manner of Morris, Willard and Firpo .. I've read the 100 times over Ray Arcel quote .. and of course how Dempsey walked out of the Wills - Firpo bout ( Wills was already pushing 33 ) .. it really doesn't tell the full story about how highly regarded Wills was in 1917 - 1920 plus and how Dempsey's Team wanted no part of him ..

    I honestly have no idea who would have won ,, there is little doubt that Dempsey through 1921 was really a magnificent blend of speed and power , a tough as nails fighter .. it's criminal Wills never got the shot .. for him and also for Dempsey.
     
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    It says a lot about Wills, that either Dempsey, or Dempsey's team, were reluctant to fight him.

    It's not like they had a manufactured champion, who needed to be shielded from the better contenders.

    They had a pretty formidable champion at their disposal!
     
  15. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This content is protected
    This content is protected
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
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