Ingemar Johansson vs Sonny Liston 1959

Quite a few fighters complained of burning eyes when facing Liston. Valdes for sure, I think Folley too.

 

Terrell beat Williams fair and square. Myself, Klompton, Edward Morbius, and scartissue all agreed with the official verdict. I think you were in the minority among posters who scored the fight.

 

You mean Archie Moore?

 

I wouldn't say Patterson was "frozen with fear", sure, he may not have been as confident I guess, but just "frozen with fear" is a bit much

 

Rt...I read those stories somewhere too long ago...but can't find the exact cites anymore.

 

It would be a popularity contest rather than something worth doing. How would I know You wont create extra accounts or use the extra ones you already have and nobble the whole thing?

 

Indeed but it was at the end of his career. Liston was stopped by Leotis Martin at the end of his career. Do you think that was a defining moment for Liston?

To his credit, Johansson beat every fighter that he faced as a pro and he did not lose to someone like Marty Marshall.

The one thing in Liston's favour is that he beat Patterson in the rematch whereas Johansson didn't. Then you can make the comparison with Machen and how Johansson demolished him whereas Liston couldn't stop a Machen that was arguably one handed for the fight.

Boxing is more complicated than that and pushing one of these points in favour of the others just to promote your fav fighter is not very convincing.

 

Ingo after Liston takes a dive in round 1.

 

Machen's approach against Liston and Ingo respectively is night and day.

 

Really? And what about the approach of Marty Marshall?

 

What does Marshall have to do with Machen's respective performances against Liston and Ingo? It's clear as day, Machen approached Ingo, uncharacteristically aggressive as Ingo was still virtually unknown.

But since you want to bring up Marshall, it was Liston's 7th pro fight ffs! He was facing a fighter who frequently made it into the top ten ratings (who I believe was actually rated when he fought Liston). Who was Ingo facing in his 7th pro fight? Oh yeah a 19-23-3 fighter on a five fight losing streak.

 

I don't believe you have actually watched the fights you are talking about. It wasn't like Machen came out swinging wildly against Ingo or that he was running like De la Hoya vs Trinidad in his fight against Liston.

And Johansson won the European title already in his 15th fight. Had by then beaten Bygraves. 17th fight kod Henry Cooper. In his 22nd fight he was already fighting for the world championship. Of course, like so many other posters on the subject, you try to paint a picture that is extremely misleading.

 

In any case, if Machen could survive 12 rounds with Liston, why could Johansson not last long enough to land his own bomb? It was part of his game plan to lure his opponent into a sense of security to make him drop his guard. I think it would be a cracking match up and anyone knowing heavyweight boxing knows that when big punchers square up, anything can happen.

 

Here are the respective fights. (5) Ingemar Johansson KO´s Eddie Machen 1st round, 1958 - YouTube

(5) Sonny Liston Eddie Machen - YouTube

It's clear as day, Machen approached them very differently. If Machen truly believed the same would've happened in a rematch, he wouldn't have aggressively pursued the matter in court.

It doesn't change the fact, that in their respective 7th fights, Liston was facing a much higher caliber of opponents. By his fifteenth fight, Johannson had literally more than twice the experience Liston did when he fought Marshall.

What were Bygraves and Coopers' ratings when Ingo fought them?

Cooper was green, unranked, and on a losing streak.

"Johansson, all but unknown on the western shore of the Atlantic, knocked out Machen, then the No. 1 contender, last September in a single round" BOXING GREETS ITS NEW DAWN - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI.com