Interesting Jack Johnson article by Monte Cox

You don't know the background to the fight do you? Who Sharkey's manager was ,who was in his training camp or why they were there.

In fact you don't know jack about it. I repeat .
ANYONE WHO BELIEVES CARNERA HAD DEVASTATING POWER WOULD BE BETTER OFF WATCHING WWF.

Got to go, going round the Son -in laws ,to have a few jars and watch the Haye fight .:hi:

 

I know that Sharkey maintained it wasn't a dive.....and it's freaking obvious by the footage!

Enjoy the fight! :bbb

 

Again, I have third world footage of Duran, Chavez, Napoles, Monzon, Laguna, Benitez... locally produced, single camera, ZERO production, poorly lit bullfighting arenas and the like, a lot of it in black and white... and yet they all look fantastic.

If were are talking Corbett-Fitz or Jeffries-Ruhlin where there is a ton of degradation, that is one matter. However, the Johnson footage is very informative, as are a few others from that time like the McVea-Jim Johnson bout. Gans looks fantastic on film, too. There is a lot of evidence of what they are doing well, what they are doing because of different ring equipment and rules, and in some cases, what they are doing because lack of skill or natural ability.

 

Well it is striking that these early fighters all seem to get better, when they were well past their prime.

Corbett looks better in sparring footage as an old man, than he does in the Fitzsimmons fight.

Jeffries looks better against Johnson than he does in the Sharkey and Ruhlin fights, because you can see what the hell he is doing!

How many people have you heard use Johnson’s performance in the early rounds of the Willard fight, as evidence of how good he was in his prime?

Even Dempsey seems to look better against Tunney, than he does in some of his early fights.

 

:bbb

Yes, a Johnson fight would LOOK different, if filmed in perfect quality. The boxers would move more fluidly, subtle details that were originally hard to detekt from old film would now become apparent, and the boxers would generally look better/more skillful. And ok, lets pretend that the welfare of the boxers would suddenly be an issue, because we now see all the gory details more clearly. Oh yes, there's that "friction" thing too... let's not forget that! Sure, the whole viewing experience would be different. Fine!

But that's not what I'm arguing about at all! I just want an answer to a very simple question: Wouldn't Johnson's style, his way of fighting, basically be the same, regardless of the quality of the film? Forget about the viewing experience, how much better Johnson would look in modern footage and our concern for his opponents... do you not agree, the the "new" Johnson would simply be a better/clearer version of the "old" Johnson? But that his style of fighting would remain the same?

 

I'm not insinuating that a 2016 camera will magically change his style. But our opinions of his style may change dramatically.

 

You use words like "evidence" and "informative." And thats my entire point. With bad production, you have to rely on "scientific" observations. There's no emotion to it, and these subtleties matter a lot.

We don't love Foreman and Tyson strictly from observing them scientifically. We felt their power. We saw the powerful punches, and the muscles tensing. We saw the fear of their opponents. We saw emotion, and detail.

On one hand, many posters here see further than the average person when viewing old film. On the other hand, none of us are impervious to the power and effectiveness of production, and quality. And we would all increase our admirations for past ATG's with better footage. It's asinine to disagree imo.

 

This is an all-time ESB quote!

 

The film of those fights was so degraded and nowhere near the level of even the Johnson fights that we have.

Not to me he doesn't.

 

When I'm examining a fight I look at none of that. Seriously, what are you looking for in the sport, a soap opera?

And again, I see greatness in the latin fighters of the 60's-80's and most of the footage I have of them has zero production and is filmed more poorly than some of the better fights of the 20's.

 

Yeah, I'm not saying you can't appreciate fighters in old fight footage. I don't think a single poster here thinks like that.

Im saying production matters. A lot. It goes beyond boxing. Advertising and media are constantly evolving for a reason. To say production doesn't matter, is to say you're not human. It's who we are.

Ali's first performance against Liston will look WAY better if it was filmed with camera's they use in Mayweather fights. It's very simple.

 

Ahhh I'm just happy that my latest video is finally done, and uploading!

It's called: Joe Louis - Astronaut (HD)

Live in less than 2 hours!

 

Pretty solid point there .. :good