Is Ali the HW GOAT?

Good boxer doesn't rely on those things to win

 

I think in the 1960s he was very quick and used to be great at pulling his head back so he made up for it.

But in the 1970s when he lost some his movement especially in the 2nd half of the decade it started to show and I definitely believe the amount Ali got hit took years of his life.

 

He got hit in the 60s (Cooper, Jones) as well just no one was good enough to exploit his weaknesses. If Norton and Frazier were around in those days I bet money they would have beat him as well

 

All you have to do is compare his 2 performances against Patterson, Floyd didn't change his approach but Ali was on a different level in the 60s

 

Perhaps. I think every heavyweight lacked something important so that goes for Ali aswell there is no perfect fighter and if there was there wouldn't really be any debates.

I think Norton and Frazier were just tough matchups for Ali and would have been at most stages. I was more thinking about his fights with other guys there.

 

Louis is as close to perfect as you can get in the heavyweight division. I also think highly of Usyk in terms of skill and ability to adapt and overcome huge physical challenges and Wlad in terms of pure effectiveness and nullifying his opponents strengths at least if they're smaller then him which most heavyweights historically have been.

 

Patterson was way too small and lacked anyway to deal with Ali's physical advantages and had his own technical shortcomings. Look at Cooper and Jones both gave prime Ali trouble

 

He dominated much bigger guys than Patterson and thats irrelevant to my argument. Ali in the 60s looked far superior than his older self against Patterson, was more athletic, more agile upper body, faster lighter feet, feinting, shifting and jabbing more, got hit less in general in 1960s. These observations are objective. There is nothing 70s ali did better apart from defending on the ropes because his legs were leaving him

 

You're arguing a point I never made lol

 

Those 3 are a good shout. What's true that neither Louis nor Wlad had the greatest of chin's though but then again that speaks of there ability to get round it.

 

The poll has given you clear clarity now.

 

Dubois, run is clearly better than Agit's.

 

Canelo is leagues above Fury and aj on the greatness list, non debatable. Holyfield has better wins than Usyk

 

Strongly disagree on Holy. Foreman and Holmes over 40, Douglas a beached whale, Tyson Post prison drug-addict, etc.

Holy's wins have to be taken in context.