All the best HW's in the UFC signed for Pride anyway. The likes of Coleman, Randleman, Kerr, Barnet (albeit after a failed drug test), Frye, Shamrock ect so the UFC was pretty thin in terms of elite heaveyweight Champs. That's not factoring PRIDES 'homegrown' stars for the lack of a better term. Nog, Fedor Cro Cop Herring, Igor ect.
Well to be fair Coleman was at one point the best fighter in the world which Cro Cop never was. And Shamrock was the first American to 'solve' the Gracie problem.
Colemans socalled "best" years were extremely short. He rode alot of luck in the PRIDE GP. And prior to that it was the early days of MMA whereby he was able to get by by simply being stronger than everyone else and taking advantage of a rule set that favoured grappler's heavily. Coleman never had a long period of dominance. For my money id say Kerr was the best fighter in the world back then at heavy not Coleman. As for Shamrock. He was the same. The guy never evolved to be anything more than "leg" Lock guy. CC on the other hand was the first bonafide striker in MMA. Who brought world class striking into the sport with world class high light reels against solid competition. Even on the ground CC was no slouch and possessed an excellent TDD. To put him in the same bracket as Shamrock and Coleman who did nothing to change with the sport as the competition got tougher for me sells CC short badly.
I wouldn't say Shamrock or Coleman were better than Cro Cop but its not like the comparison the guy was making was ridiclous - all three are Hall of Fame guys that probably will be underrated by future generations due to their records lacking everything that is now expected from great fighters. Plus you do have to make special allowances for pioneers. Particularly Shamrock - I mean he really was the first Western fighter to get the sport and through being involved in Pancrease was fighting before the UFC even started. Likewise Coleman's run on top was short but given the techniques he helped create are still being used today he's by no means a joke even if his style was exposed as one-dimensional relatively quickly. The Pride OW GP comeback was something special though. And to be fair Cro Cop struggled and eventually failed to make the same adjustment as the sport changed in his own era. I mean how many years have people been telling him to move the **** down in weight?
CC's been a heavy his ENTIRE career. What makes you think a career 225lb guy can just magically make 205 and still be effective when he's been in full contact competition for 20 years?!? And adjustment wasn't CC's issue. When he came into the UFC it was off the back of the OWGP in one of the best and most clinical performances ever in the history of MMA. When CC arrived in the UFC the competition at heavy was pretty dire and CC thought the title had his name on it. Coupled with his injurys and confidence shattering loss's to Gonzaga he's not been the same since and won't ever be. Bottom line is CC was much more of a mixed martial artist than Shamrock and Coleman ever were.
I don't think a 225Ib can magically make 205Ib but he probably should try in a division dominated by 240-260Ibers But yes you are right that Cro Cop mentally wasn't there for his first UFC run. And again I never said CC was more of a mixed martial artist than Shamrock ro Coleman just that both are historically important fighters and all time greats. Again its difficult to rank piooners because their skills are obviously inferior to those that came after but you have to respect their role in getting the thing started. Same with Royce Gracie - by modern standards a poor fighter but any Top 10 ATG that doesn't have him somewhere is as bogus as a top ten heavyweight boxer list that doesn't include Jack Johnson.
Don't get it twisted im not dismissing Shamrock or Coleman's validity as pioneers. What im questioning is the comparison with their skills vs that of CC who was clearly far more evolved hence he's success and longer run at the highest level in the sport at that time. The fact CC wasn't able to compete in the current UFC division is because of two things. A diminished skill set because of injury's and ruined confidence. CC's era is over. Personally i believe absolutely that a prime CC would be able to compete with the same degree of success he had in PRIDE. Name me one striker at heavy that possess's the same quality of a prime CC. Apart from Overeem i can't think of anyone else who has similar credentials at a world class level. The reality is CC simply got old. There's not much point in making it anymore convoluted than that.
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yes cro cop was an amazing kickboxer and awesome legend of pride. He had one of the best fights against wanderlei silva ever. Head-kick legend!
Well it's all about impact, when he first started fighting he was one of the best fighters for a few years. If Hikon Gracie foght now he wouldn't be as competitive, neither would Dan the beast or Sakuraba. But at their prime they were like GSP and Silva now. The current fighters can't be compared to the former fighters. With one exception Fedor because he fought Sambo had a good 5 years of knowledge and skills as an advantage for MMA training, because Sambo is similar to MMA he was at the top for much longer, this is why his careers has been exceptional. Now fighter train MMA where as you had a wrestler, muay Thai fighter etc, now they do it all.... we think, in 5 years the style might be completely different. Now you will have a fighter that is good for maybe 4 years and that's it... it's pointless making an argument they shouldn't be considered greats because they haven't evolved with the sport, because very few have. also Kim Dong Hyun to face winner of GSP Shields.
Yes Pride fighter was much better at the time. Chuck Liddel was suppose to go to Pride as a publicity stunt but it exposed the fact that Pride fighters were better. Now you see fighters from Pride in the UFC and they are not at their peak. The Wandy Silva example shows this perfectly.