Is Duran an overrated lightweight?

robert ungurean · Aug 11, 2012

MrBumboclart said: ↑

The only fighters worth mentioning that he beat at 135 are DeJesus (whom he lost to once) and Buchanan, who was good but never great.

Do you think Ike Williams, Benny Leonard or maybe even Pernell Whitaker are better lightweighs in terms of resume? Who they beat? The skill they displayed? Duran was strong and prime at 135 and as he jumped he became smarter as he lost the physical edge. I personally think he naturally grew into a 147-150 fighter, I doubt he could ever have maintained 135 for much longer than he did.

What is your opinion?
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Greatest LW ever.

lora · Aug 11, 2012

Bokaj said: ↑

After the rematch or the rubber?
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Sorry Bokaj, i meant to say he had lost some speed by the third bout, not rematch.

and then after the rubber he went downhill quickly.

LittleRed · Aug 11, 2012

He was weight drained for.the rubber match. DeJesus not Duran.

HairyHighlander · Aug 11, 2012

Robbi said: ↑

I read a superb article in the Sep, 1980, issue of the Ring about Duran's lightweight greatness, and head to head ability against past lightweights. The people giving their opinion have been around since the 40's at least, some had seen Benny Leonard during the 20's. Some were trainers like Cus Dmato and Ray Arcel, Teddy Brenner and many others. They talked about Benny Leonard, Lew Tendler, Tony Canzoneri, Beau Jack, Jimmy Carter, Bob Montgomery, Henry Armstrong, Barney Ross, Ike Williams, Carlos Ortiz, etc. Basically they all agreed that Duran was really good but never in the class of Williams and Canzoneri, etc. They really asked the question, who did Duran beat? One even laughed at Lou Bizzaro taking Duran into the late rounds.

Jack Fiske said "When I try to place Roberto Duran in a one-to-ten listing, I can never wipe the memory of his title defense against Lou Bizzaro, Leonica Ortiz and Vilomar Fernandez. Bizzaro lasted 15 rounds, Ortiz went the full 15 round limit and Fernandez was there until the 13th. Bizzaro, without a doubt, was the most pathetic lightweight challenger in history, although a great runner. Ortiz, at the time he met Duran had a 22-5-1 record. Fernandez 19-5-1, had only knocked out five men. Ike Williams would have knocked out all three in one night.

"The best fighter Duran ever met was Esteban De Jesus, who beat him one out of three. Probably on par with De Jesus was Ken Buchanan, from whom Duran won the title on a controversial low blow in the 13th round. Duran's manager would never honor a commitment of a return bout contract with Buchanan after that"

"None of the old timers participating in the poll gave De Jesus or Buchanan a call on their all-time lists. Think about it".

Teddy Brenner "Duran, to me, was an exciting, colourful, hard punching, charismatic fighter, but I think he suffered a geniune lack of competition. While he held the title, the fighters in the lightweight division were at the lowest calibre in the divisions history".
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Quality post/info......kinda cold.

Son of Gaul · Aug 11, 2012

MrBumboclart said: ↑

The only fighters worth mentioning that he beat at 135 are DeJesus (whom he lost to once) and Buchanan, who was good but never great.

Do you think Ike Williams, Benny Leonard or maybe even Pernell Whitaker are better lightweighs in terms of resume? Who they beat? The skill they displayed? Duran was strong and prime at 135 and as he jumped he became smarter as he lost the physical edge. I personally think he naturally grew into a 147-150 fighter, I doubt he could ever have maintained 135 for much longer than he did.

What is your opinion?
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What LW would you favor over him h2h? This is where Duran thrives and is the main reason he is held in such high regard historically.

Son of Gaul · Aug 11, 2012

Senor Pepe' said: ↑

Roberto Duran is without a doubt, one of the Top 3 Lightweights of 'All Time'.

No reason to go any further.

The only bouts that he could have added to his list during that time;

A) A rematch with Ken Buchanan in 1973 or 1974.

B) A bout with WBC Light-Welterweight Champion - Perico Fernandez in 1975.
Perico was willing to come down to 135 lbs. to fight Roberto in May 1975.
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A rematch with Buchanan wasn't justified since it was a one-sided demolition.

Senor Pepe' · Aug 11, 2012

I wouldn't discount Ken Buchanan in 1973 or 1974,

He was 'miles' better than Masataka Takayama who lasted less than 1-Round
in December 1974.

It was clearly a desired bout by the boxing world.

Ken was ranked as the #2 Lightweight in 1973, and #3 in 1974.

Not sure what 'Planet' Masataka Takayama was on that ranked him in the Top 10.

ETM · Aug 11, 2012

Duran was beating Buchanon in one sided fashion but the ending wasnt the way you want to settle something. Buchanon won about 13 fights in a row after that and he probably deserved a shot.

PhillyPhan69 · Aug 11, 2012

I don't see anyone with the exception of Benny & Gans who could rate higher than him at LW. I rate Leonard 1 and go back and forth between Duran & Gans for the 2 spot. Just about everyone rates him in the top 3, so that rating seems fair.

I guess if you find him to be outside of the 3 greatest Lightweights, than you could say he was over rated....but more likely rating him outside of the top 3 is under rating.

I would say he is rated right where he should be!

turbotime · Aug 11, 2012

Son of Gaul said: ↑

What LW would you favor over him h2h? This is where Duran thrives and is the main reason he is held in such high regard historically.
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Mosley.

Yeah, I'm going there. He'd **** everyone at 135 that Duran fought, I'm superbly confident in that.

lora · Aug 11, 2012

Mosley was a hack

turbotime · Aug 11, 2012

lora said: ↑

Mosley was a hack
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At 154. Not 135.

Manassa · Aug 11, 2012

Bill Butcher said: ↑

You can argue records (resume to you lot) all day but of all the fighters that there is quality footage of, the 2 best lightweights are clearly Duran & Whitaker....
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And Williams. The other two are above, I agree, but not by very much at all. It's about the same gap that separates Sanchez and Pep. Williams, to me at least, looks extremely good on film.

Saying that, Ortiz has to be on the same level as Williams as well.

Senor Pepe' · Aug 12, 2012

It is unfortunate,,,,,,

But Roberto may have been one great Light-Welterweight Champion,
as the opportunity was there for the taking.

Hands of Iron · Jan 1, 2013

Robbi said: ↑

I read a superb article in the Sep, 1980, issue of the Ring about Duran's lightweight greatness, and head to head ability against past lightweights. The people giving their opinion have been around since the 40's at least, some had seen Benny Leonard during the 20's. Some were trainers like Cus Dmato and Ray Arcel, Teddy Brenner and many others. They talked about Benny Leonard, Lew Tendler, Tony Canzoneri, Beau Jack, Jimmy Carter, Bob Montgomery, Henry Armstrong, Barney Ross, Ike Williams, Carlos Ortiz, etc. Basically they all agreed that Duran was really good but never in the class of Williams and Canzoneri, etc. They really asked the question, who did Duran beat? One even laughed at Lou Bizzaro taking Duran into the late rounds.

Jack Fiske said "When I try to place Roberto Duran in a one-to-ten listing, I can never wipe the memory of his title defense against Lou Bizzaro, Leonica Ortiz and Vilomar Fernandez. Bizzaro lasted 15 rounds, Ortiz went the full 15 round limit and Fernandez was there until the 13th. Bizzaro, without a doubt, was the most pathetic lightweight challenger in history, although a great runner. Ortiz, at the time he met Duran had a 22-5-1 record. Fernandez 19-5-1, had only knocked out five men. Ike Williams would have knocked out all three in one night.

"The best fighter Duran ever met was Esteban De Jesus, who beat him one out of three. Probably on par with De Jesus was Ken Buchanan, from whom Duran won the title on a controversial low blow in the 13th round. Duran's manager would never honor a commitment of a return bout contract with Buchanan after that"

"None of the old timers participating in the poll gave De Jesus or Buchanan a call on their all-time lists. Think about it".

Teddy Brenner "Duran, to me, was an exciting, colourful, hard punching, charismatic fighter, but I think he suffered a geniune lack of competition. While he held the title, the fighters in the lightweight division were at the lowest calibre in the divisions history".
Click to expand...

Fascinating. Didn't you post another article circa 1977-78 in which Carlos Zarate was considered the best fighter 'P4P' at the time?

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Is Duran an overrated lightweight?

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Is Duran an overrated lightweight?

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