Is it possible Monzon is overrated ? S.I. Vault article rips him ..

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by he grant, Nov 28, 2019.


  1. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    Carlos Monzon fascinates me .. I am always trying to learn more about him but have been kneecapped by language barrier and his limited exposure in the States .. many rate him as the absolute best of all time, most put him in the highest tier .. there is no doubt he was a freak of sorts, tough as nails, insane chin and stamina, toughness, mental strength, etc .. I read statements from fabled trainers like Dundee and Clancy saying he at times does not look as impressive as he is effective .. the recent docudrama took the position that he was a very tough guy that surprised even his own people by his successful longevity .. in my research , trying to read whatever I can get in English , I found coverage of his one NYC fight from deceased, very well known writer Mark Kram Sr. where he absolutely rips Monzon apart as disappointing, absurdly overrated, a Latin beloved myth, a puncher with no leverage and one who never even puts together a combination .. this was after watching him live against Licata in MSG .. open to debate / thoughts on this .. I believe Klompton has been open in not bending a knee at Monzon and curious if he may have a point ..

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  2. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing booted Full Member

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    Just his record tells you he is something very special: 87-3 with the 3 losses as a greenhorn. He also has some big names on there.

    That's kinda the baseline you have to work from.

    If people want to argue that Hagler, SRR, Greb, RJJ, or other top tier MW's would beat him, that's fair enough, styles make fights, let's hear the arguments ... but just being mentioned in similar company sort of underlines how good you are.
     
  3. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Full Member

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    While I agree Monzon isnt the most exciting guy in the least to watch what interests me alot is how ineffective his opponents are against him. For a guy who in many opinions doesnt look like much on film it's just plain interesting how no one could dominate let alone beat the man.
    Good bit on him on YouTube but like you said all in Spanish. I found some cool little training clips but I just cant figure out how to post them.
    The way a sliding Monzon handled a very underrated Valdez says alot, were they exciting fights no not really but he just has a way of handling people that make you ask yourself how is he doing that? But he is over and over.
     
  4. 70sFan

    70sFan Member Full Member

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    He was the best in his time, no losses in almost 13 years. I wish his and Hagler's primes lined up - what a fight that would have been.
     
  5. surfinghb1

    surfinghb1 Member Full Member

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    "the product of Latin "generosity" and emotion." I Didn't understand this? It seems the article wanted to focus on the murder by saying that was his harder fight of his life. When I read that crock of sh*t statement, that discredits it for me ... If people don't understand Monzon's style and what he is doing in the ring, then so be it.
     
  6. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond A real man oughta be a little stupid Full Member

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    Brusa was obviously an extremely effective trainer, curtesy of Moore.
    His training interests me the most.
     
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  7. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Full Member

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    Explain the connection please. I must be missing something
     
  8. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond A real man oughta be a little stupid Full Member

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    Well Moore was an esteemed guest when he visited Argentina, as he was invited by the president. I read on here that he also trained some people over there, including Brusa. Might be wrong on that part though, but Brusa began training as early as 1950 so it might not be untrue either
     
  9. red cobra

    red cobra Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah...thats right surfinghb1...and personally, I'm tired of trying to explain Monzon to these people....I've been doing it for as long as I've been a boxing board member on line. The thickheads will never learn or understand. A bullshlt article btw....Monzon was perhaps the least Latin-like fighter of all time...I'm amazed that he was even a Latin as a matter of fact.
     
  10. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond A real man oughta be a little stupid Full Member

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    I put this in translate, so the grammar is off but makes the point

    '
    ' Although he was also a catch fighter - some still remember the Red Masked - in his heart and in his soul the dream of turning to the technical direction was already growing. Observer, analyst and scholar as very few, Amílcar took his first steps learning from two consecrated monsters who visited Buenos Aires: the American brunettes Sandy Saddler (feather world king, whose first name was Joseph, who was born in Boston on June 23, 1926 and died on September 18, 2001, at age 75) and Archie Moore (middleweight monarch, whose real name was Archibald Lee Right, born on December 13, 1916 in Benoit and who died on December 9, 1998, a the 81'
     
  11. surfinghb1

    surfinghb1 Member Full Member

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    Still don't understand the "Latin generosity" part… why does he say that? went over my head
     
  12. red cobra

    red cobra Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Doesn't make any sense to me either.
     
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  13. surfinghb1

    surfinghb1 Member Full Member

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    Brusa was a wrestler, thus the reference to the Red Mask, I believe. He incorporated wrestling into Monzon's game with defensive turns and twists as you can see in Monzon's defense. Brusa was an analytical man … Both Saddler and Moore both fought at Luna Park a few times and Brusa studied their styles and it was these 2 who were a big foundation of his boxing training and teachings
     
  14. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond A real man oughta be a little stupid Full Member

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    Thanks. Very interesting.
     
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  15. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    The article was written as coverage to the actual fight so it was not post career or influenced by the murder but in 1975 .. MY take is he felt that since he was a fighter that virtually never fought in the US he was a bit built up by the South American media as a favored son .. it was also written forty five years ago ( astonishing ) so not as PC as today for sure .. it still reads a bit like when Haugen said who'd Chavez beat , fifty cab drivers .. there is zero doubt that Monzon was big, very smart in the ring, incredibly tough and mean, championship chin and heart, terrific stamina, etc .. he must be a top guy .. where he is in that highest tier I don't know .. he certainly falls into the category of a hard night for anyone .. that said he does not look exceptionally fast or fluent. Methodical and effective ..
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
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