Is Marciano...

Correction, Archie Moore did not beat Tommy Jackson, but he did beat Nino Valdez multiple times, Harold Johnson multiple times, Bob Baker once and Joey Maxim multiple times.

 

Also, Bernie Reynolds was ranked briefly at number nine in the ratings by Ring Magazine. Another top contender Marciano beat around the time he was fighting.

 

Given the state of those you mention, their age, tread on the tires, size, or lack of a single fast twitch fiber, Marciano ranks slightly below Oleg Maskaev.

 

I've never said Marciano wasn't a great fighter.
I've actually said he was on this thread!

Opponents
Cockell was an obese Light heavyweight who had been floored multiple times and stopped by a middleweight,his ranking relies on him beating a washed up Lastarza and Mathews a light heavyweight hype job.

Lastarza was one of the most protected heavyweights ever which he himself admitted in a Ring interview,offered fights with several contenders his manager turned them down flat.
Here are some he somehow managed to miss;
Walls
Charles
Walcott
Maxim
Gardner
Baker
Sys
Oma
Baksi
Williams
Dunlap
Neuhaus
Harrison
Bivins
Satterfield
Wallace
Slade
Henry
Look at his record for Christ Sake
Two fights before challenging Marciano,he was floored and beaten by ,Rocky Jones, a journeyman light heavyweight!
Who did he beat , a washed up Layne, and two fringe contenders like,
Bucceroni and Brion!
Moore was 41 years old.
Walcott was 38.Retired after their fights
Louis was 37, over the hill and half way up the next one.Retired after their fight.
Charles had nearly a 100 fights worth of mileage on his clock.He had lost 2 of his last 4 fights.
Mathews was a hyped up LHVy.176lbs
Who had he beat? A sliding Layne. A hundred and seventy three pounds Lloyd Marshall who was having his last fight having won just 1 of his last 5.
Don't look at just numbers look at where these men were in their careers and who they had beaten!

 

Fighters who had been ranked at some point before they fought Marciano is irrelevant to their capabilities when they fought him Savold was totally washed up,a past it Louis had badly beaten him into submission,the Commission withdrew Savold's licence after the Marciano fight.
According to your logic Foreman wiping out Frazier and Norton meant he would wipe out Ali!
Joe Joyce stopped both Joseph Parker and Daniel Dubois.would he be favourite to do so now?They are ranked no 1 and no2 ,Joyce isn't in the top ten.

Valdes was number one at the end of 1953 and 1954.
He lost to Moore in March 1953 and May 1955.So how does that excuse Marciano for not fighting him?

Moore never fought Jackson.
Muscato 180lbs was ranked at the end of1947
He fought Marciano in Dec 1949.He had lost his last 4 and won 1 of his last 6, the only win was over Rocky Jones a journeyman Lhvy who was 7-4-1.

Reynolds was never ranked .
He had won 2 of his last 7 fights.

Beshore was ranked no 10 in1948. He fought Marciano in Aug 1951.
He had won 3 of his last 11 ,his wins were over.
Rocky Jones7-4-1
Henri 13-14-2
Culbertson19-6-2
If these are the opponents you are pushing as note worthy opposition, I think you are very desperate!

 

This post ends the thread as the points you've made are irrefutable, Rocky came along at a perfect time for him and got out before Patterson and Sonny Liston came along.

 

Cute but not really accurate that is it? IBRO have him #7 & Ring have him #4. Now both you and I can dispute those rankings somewhat but they do demonstrate a consensus about his historical placing.

 

Yeah, I went back and fixed that, I clearly stated he didn’t fight Jackson. I guess you skipped over that part.

it’s not Marciano’s fault that Archie Moore beat Valdes twice before Moore fought Marciano. Maybe Valdes should’ve beat Archie Moore and then Marciano would’ve had to fight him.

I’m not saying Marciano beat those guys in their prime, I’m just saying that they were contenders within a year or two of him beating them. It was just an observation that I hadn’t caught before.

 

lol

 

you can use Moore and Louis‘s age all you want, but how come both of them beat multiple top 10 contenders before they fought Marciano? If Moore and Louis were so old, how come those younger contenders couldn’t beat them? I just checked their records last night, both of them beat multiple top guys in the top 10, some of them in the top 3 to 5, before they fought Marciano.

 

First of all, he would’ve never stayed around long enough Liston, he would’ve been too old. Patterson would’ve gotten smoked. Let’s not pretend Patterson was going to beat him.

 

I like how you think you know more than the Internet, go ahead and Google “Reynolds ring magazine heavyweight ratings”, he was rated in May 1949. It was the only time he reached the ratings within the top 10.

here, I did it for you.

Boxing: At his peak in the late 1940s, Reynolds was regarded as one of the outstanding heavyweights -- a guy who won 50 of his first 55 fights and, in May 1949, was ranked ninth in the world by Ring magazine.

https://www.ctinsider.com/sports/article/guest-commentary-fairfield-boxing-great-4279270.php

 

you’re acting like Matthews was a light heavyweight being outweighed by 20 to 30 pounds when he fought Marciano. Guys flipped between heavyweight and light heavyweight all the time in the era because they literally would show up 1 pound higher than the light heavyweight limit to fight at heavyweight. Matthew’s had a 50 fight win streak and was a ranked guy in both weight classes, to call him an overhyped light heavyweight is funny because he was actually the number one contender at light heavyweight at one point.

just say you hate Marciano and let it go, for a guy that gets **** on all the time, if he was so bad, surely, someone would’ve beaten him at least once.

 

Well you've clearly conceded the point that Lastarza was ranked now then. So now we’re back to ripping apart resumes? Interesting flip. You slammed Marciano for not fighting ranked contenders on his way up (which I’ve shown is false) & now you’re trashing the ranked fighters he did beat. Can’t have it both ways, can you.. If they were ranked by the Ring why does it matter if you don’t rate them now?

What do you want now then? A counter to your resume critique... fek me how many times we gotta do this with the Marciano knockers man ...

Charles was #1 NBA Heavy. Had just KOd top 10 ranked Bob Satterfeld who would go on to stop Cleveland Williams & Nino Valdes.

Walcott was #1 NBA Heavy. Had just won his trilogy with Ezzard Charles. Who in & among was beating Maxim, Louis, Bivins etc..

Moore was #1 NBA Heavy. Who at the time was so old & shot he defeated the likes of Valdes twice, Maxim 3 times, Durelle twice , Howard King multiple times, Bobo Olson, Howard Johnson & even at 47 beat an Olympic gold medalist.

Rex Layne #2 NBA Heavy. Was 34-1-2 had wins over Satterfield & Walcott & would go on to beat Charles.

Lastarza #2 NBA Heavy. Undefeated at the time of their first fight. Best career win would be Rex Layne who was coming off a win over Charles.

Harry Matthews #7 NBA. Was on a 50 fight win streak had beaten Rex Layne.

As for Cockell.. he had just beaten the aforementioned Matthews three times, Lastarza & an old Tommy farr. I don't particularly care about Cockell or that win, but there was a reason for it.. let's look .. yes he lost to a LHW Turpin who a year before, had become one of the few to defeat SRR.. but one of the documented reasons for the defeat was the difficulty that Cockell had in making the weigh, hence the subsequent move to HW.. The fight against Farr was a final eliminator for the British HW title which put Cockell in line for a title challenge. The bout for the British and Commonwealth titles was held & Cockell won on points. Cockell then had two more wins before defending his Commonwealth title in South Africa. Cockell then moved up the rankings by scoring three wins against American fighters. First he beat Lastarza on points & then he had successive victories over Kid Matthews. These victories then put him in line for a title fight against Marciano.

Was Marcianos record the greatest? No. I never said it was.. were they all prime or at their best? No. But Marciano faced the best available opposition of that era.. jump on the age thing or LHW thing all u like.. Marciano was basically a stumpy LHW anyway & in many cases was vastly inexperienced compared to his 'ageing' foes. Hope all that helps, have a spiffing day my friend, bored now..

 

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