is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ushvinder, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

    14,709
    9
    Feb 23, 2012
    You're probably right, orriray. I went and did the same unquantified style that Henry Hascup wrote up for Greb real quick and this is incomplete. I could narrow down to when each guy was rated and what not thanks to him but in fairness to Greb (and probably Ray), there weren't monthly ratings in Greb's day.

    I could've listed Angott a third time, Jannazzo twice more but for what? He beat Angott at LW months before he became recognized as World Champ, the last two Angott was rated at Welter; first two times against Izzy he was the #2 WW.

    Jimmy Tygh 44-11-5
    Jimmy Tygh 44-12-5
    Pete Lello 47-8
    Sammy Angott 60-15-5 - Hall of Famer - World Lightweight Champion
    Maxie Shapiro 50-6-2
    Marty Servo 42-0-2 - World Welterweight Champion
    Fritzie Zivic 111-26-5 - Hall of Famer - World Welterweight Champion
    Fritzie Zivic 113-27-6 - Hall of Famer - World Welterweight Champion
    Norman Rubio 29-5-4
    Marty Servo 43-1-2 - World Welterweight Champion
    Sammy Angott 68-16-5 - Hall of Famer - World Lightweight Champion
    Reuben Shank 20-3-4
    Tony Motisi 29-5-3
    Jake LaMotta 25-4-2 - Hall of Famer - World Middleweight Champion
    Izzy Jannazzo 46-26-13
    Vic Dellicurti 30-19-6
    Izzy Jannazzo 46-27-13
    California Jackie Wilson 46-4-2
    Jake LaMotta 31-5-2 - Hall of Famer - World Middleweight Champion
    Ralph Zannelli 54-14-4
    Henry Armstrong 133-17-8 - Hall of Famer - World Featherweight, Lightweight, Welterweight Champion
    Tommy Bell 29-4-1
    George Costner 35-5-3
    Jake LaMotta 45-8-2 - Hall of Famer - World Middleweight Champion
    Jimmy McDaniels 40-19-9
    Jake LaMotta 52-9-2 - Hall of Famer - World Middleweight Champion
    Joe Curcio 61-11-6
    Artie Levine 45-9-5
    Tommy Bell 39-10-2
    Georgie Abrams 48-6-3
    Jimmy Doyle 42-6-3
    Bernard Docusen 49-2-4
    Kid Gavilan 47-4-2 - Hall of Famer - World Welterweight Champion
    Kid Gavilan 53-5-2 - Hall of Famer - World Welterweight Champion
    Steve Belloise 90-10-3
    George Costner 69-10-4
    Ray Barnes 28-2-1
    Robert Villemain 42-3-1
    Charley Fusari 63-7-1
    Jose Basora 77-14-7
    Joe Rindone 28-5-1
    Carl Olson 41-3 - Hall of Famer - World Middleweight Champion
    Bobby Dykes 71-8-6
    Robert Villemain 44-4-1
    Hans Stretz 30-2 -1
    Jake LaMotta 78-14-3 - Hall of Famer - World Middleweight Champion
    Gerhard Hecht 27-3-5
    Randy Turpin 40-2-1 - Hall of Famer - World Middleweight Champion
    Randy Turpin 41-2-1 - Hall of Famer - World Middleweight Champion
    Carl Olson 48-5-0 - Hall of Famer - World Middleweight Champion
    Rocky Graziano 68-7-6 - Hall of Famer - World Middleweight Champion
    Joe Rindone 36-13-4
    Rocky Castellani 61-8-4
    Carl Olson 71-7-0 - Hall of Famer - World Middleweight Champion
    Carl Olson 71-8-0 - Hall of Famer - World Middleweight Champion
    Gene Fullmer 40-3-0 - Hall of Famer - World Middleweight Champion
    Carmen Basilio - Hall of Famer - World Welterweight & Middleweight Champion
    Denny Moyer 30-5-0
     
  2. ushvinder

    ushvinder Active Member Full Member

    646
    1
    Oct 30, 2012
    The best head to head of all times? Compared to a sugar ray robinson or emile griffith, his resume is so thin that his head to head abilities are a damn near mystery. Sorry but beating mcgirt, chavez and vasquez doesnt make someone invincible, I would expect oscar to beat all 3 and hes prolly not even a top 50 great.
     
  3. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    42,732
    173
    Jul 22, 2004
    Is Whitaker overrated? Only if you consider him higher than the no1 boxer of all time, that would be a place or 2 too high and overrating him, otherwise no he's not
     
  4. Rdc4444

    Rdc4444 Member Full Member

    325
    140
    Aug 27, 2011
    Yes i agree he is over rated..i dont understand why
    So many people rate him so highly.....
     
  5. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,744
    52
    Nov 8, 2004
    I think the love fest began when people started reviewing his career and appreciating the level of his ability. Hardly anyone round these parts gives too much of a fark about the Ring's ratings.

    Why would they want to pretend that he wasn't the diminished, post-prime fighter that he was? That would be to diminish his performances. Why would Pea fans do that?

    Very few around these parts consider it a robbery. Nearly all think Pea held his own though, which given the circumstances of the fight (past Whitaker's prime) speaks for how good he must have been when in his prime.

    Nelson and Chavez, two fighters who on the day Whitaker beat them, were better than anyone Pac of Mayweather has beat on the day they beat them.

    If Floyd fought them he'd be doing something he hasn't done for near on a decade - taking a risk. So discussing it is moot because he wouldn't even fight those guys.

    It was a horrible performance, and arguably a loss, but this marked the beginning of Whitaker's cocaine addiction and decline. He had already climbed to the top of the mountain, beat the p4p best of his era, and took his eye off the ball. I hope you're not trying to suggest that the Whitaker who fought Charvez or McGirt would have lost a round to that guy....

    Pacquiao has a good resume (although with quite a few past prime guys in there), but not the dominance that Whitaker had in his prime, nor the skills which a lot of people take into account when talking who was better than who.
     
  6. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,744
    52
    Nov 8, 2004
    LOL if you think FLoyd would even get in the same area code as Vasquez. Dude was running from Carlos Baldomir FFS!
     
  7. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

    82,403
    1,279
    Sep 7, 2008
    He's a '**** S_S and already shown himself up to be.
     
  8. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,744
    52
    Nov 8, 2004
    Ok, so Whitaker has Nelson and Chavez who would make a top 100. And arguably DLH.

    Let's name all the top 100 all time fighters Napoles beat.
     
  9. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,744
    52
    Nov 8, 2004
    An overzealous troll because he feels Whitaker gets too much credit.

    He probably does have some sense in him though.
     
  10. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

    82,403
    1,279
    Sep 7, 2008
    Griffith...
     
  11. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,744
    52
    Nov 8, 2004
    Yep.

    And Emile was drier than a prune than night.
     
  12. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

    82,403
    1,279
    Sep 7, 2008
    Oh, yeah...
     
  13. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

    82,403
    1,279
    Sep 7, 2008
    Let me guess you think Floyd Mayweather is greater?
     
  14. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    43,491
    9,270
    Jan 3, 2007
    No I don't believe he's overrated. If anything he's underrated.
     
  15. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

    7,055
    332
    Dec 19, 2009
    He was a damn good fighter... a great fighter. I do think he was overrated in his prime and he is overrated now. They would talk about how he hardly ever lost rounds... well maybe on the scorecards but not IMO. Yes, he was robbed twice and he gave DeLaHoya a fit but he won a lot of fights by lopsided decisions that were actually pretty close fights.

    Some of the guys who gave him at least a little trouble?

    Rafael Willimas- he dropped Whitaker

    Roger Mayweather- he dropped Whitaker

    Jose L. Ramirez x2- Whitaker should have won both but it wasn't as easy as some think

    Freddie Pendleton

    Azumah Nelson

    Jorge Paez

    Buddy McGirt x2- he dropped Whitaker x2

    Julio C. Chavez- closer than some remember, Whitaker should have won though

    Wilfredo Rivera x2

    Diosbelys Hurtado- until the 11th round

    No shame in losing to DeLaHoya and Trinidad late in his career.