Is sugar Ray Leonard the greatest welterweight?

Hear hear.
And it would seem from some of the earlier pages that some people have forgotten that Leonard has said more than once that he feels SRR is the "real" Sugar Ray.

**** all that.What does he know?:bart

 

Yes I don't the Leonard would be brazen enough to disrespect Robinson by call himself the true sugar. He's a classy guy, highly intelligent and a great tribute to the sweet science.

 

Hard to respect a fighter who 'literally' stole another great fighters nickname.

Kind of pathetic.

You'd think he could have come up with his own 'nickname' or moniker.

How about 'Sucrose Ray'.

At least it would have been 'original'.

 

PTF, here is what you posted prior, that is clear as day...
"There wasn't a welterweight that I wouldn't fancy Ray [Leonard] beating
TWICE out of THREE ". In the King's English it means you have Leonard beating Robinson 2 out of three times. .. I strongly disagree....
P.S. from the first moment I saw Ray Leonard in the Olympics, I said to myself he is going to be a great pro fighter...I sure was correct but the taller rangier Robinson was a killer when provoked, and as Leonard said'
"there is only one SUGAR and that is Ray Robinson the greatest fighter I ever saw ringside in his WW prime...Cheers..

 

Yeah, I think it's bad him enough to call Ali some HW version of (old) Calzaghe, but calling Leonard a "shoeshiner"? Jesus.

I still really can't understand why all sense goes out of the window for so many when talking about Leonard.

With that said, Robinson was the greater WW and greater fighter overall. As for how they'd match up h2h, I'd have to see MUCH more of Robinson at WW to really give my 5. Would surely be a great one, though.

 

Yes Burt I did.And I believe that in a H2H match up,Ray Leonard has a good chance against any welterweight.However,I'll take both of our previous posts and show you where I respectfully take exception;

scaredas:Gulp!) I didn't.:sad2
Just because a fighter has more fights does not mean he beats any fighter of similar ability or standing with less fights.Whilst I think I know exactly what you're saying,you are suggesting that SRL's lesser total somehow matters when comparing them in a fantasy match up.These fights should usually be considered prime for prime unless otherwise stated.
I'm also going to highlight some parts of my post that you may have overlooked.

Hope you see where I'm coming from Burt.And I did get the bit about George Costner first time around.:good

 

Reading some of the old magazine articles,

The Consensus was that 'Sugar' Ray Robinson's 'first' Welterweight bout was
versus (145 3/4 lbs.) Fritzie Zivic on October 31, 1941.

The 21 year-old 'Sugar Ray' had compiled a record of 25-0-0 (20 KO's) since turning
professional only 1-year earlier (October 4, 1940).

Mr. Robinson had been campaigning versus Lightweight and Light-Welterweights up
to that point.

The 28+ year-old Fritzie Zivic at 111-26-5 (42 KO's), was Sugar Ray's 'first' true
venture against an accomplished tough guy. Fritzie had gone 17-2-1 in his last
'20-bouts', and on paper looked to be too strong for the young 'Sugar Ray'.

 

Robinson even picked up a few high quality lightweight scalps. Most notably, the LW Champion just months before officially becoming so as far as 'World' recognition.

 

In a fantasy fight I pick the fighter who is "most likely" to win...Yes Leonard was sensational for awhile [40 bouts], but Robinson was forged in steel that ENABLED him to compete in FIVE TIMES the amount of fights,
for a reason...He had what it took to last that long...
P.S. For a 21 year old Ray Robinson fresh out of the amateurs to tangle and beat a young animal like Jake LaMotta spotting LaMotta 10-15 pounds
and beating Jake 3 times is something that Ray Leonard at 21 could NEVER do...LaMotta at 15 pounds heavier would have battered the young Leonard,of that I am certain..LaMotta was beating LHs early in his career...
And yes George Sugar Costner was a tremendous WW who came along when a Ray Robinson prevailed...
Costner retired soon after and became blind...

 

Some 'first year' opponents for 'Sugar Ray'

* Oliver White.....34-10-6
* Jimmy Tygh......44-11-5 (2x)
* Mike Evans.......30-3-1
* Pete Lello.........47-8-7
* Sammy Agnott...60-15-5
* Maxie Shapiro....50-6-2
* Marty Servo......42-0-2

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

If it wasn't for your ridiculous views on Ali, you'd be near the top of the heap here.

 

:nono

Pepe's Facts on Ali are more accurate than a Mayweather straight right. Against Danny Lopez. Fighting at Super Featherweight.

 

If I might add,

25 year-old - Sammyy Agnott was the NBA Lightweight Champion, and that bout was fought at 136 1/2 lbs.

Maxie Shapiro was a 28 year-old experienced 'super' club-fighter, who was a Top 10 ranked Lightweight. The bout was fought at 135 lbs.

The 21 1/2 year-old Marty Servo, was regarded as the #2 ranked 140 lb. boxer in the world. That bout was fought at 141 lbs.

 

What I was referring to a couple posts up.