Is Usyk an ATG at Heavyweight?

Can we just confirm that if Dubois beats Usyk he becomes a ATG HW considering his HW resume and achievements will have surpassed Usyk's?

 

Well, let him get by Parker first.

At that point we're looking at what, AJ/Hrgović/Parker/Miller on DDD's side against AJx2/Furyx2 on Usyk's, as far as top four wins at HW? Not sure there's any "surpassing" going on there, really. Now, if Dubois does defeat Parker and then Usyk - cool, but that still would only cancel out Usyk's own h2h victory against him. He'd need to win a trilogy with Usyk before "surpassing" him can be argued.

 

You are counting two rematches as top 4 wins? It doesn't really work like that. It's the same opponent. If Dubois beats Parker and Usyk his resume will surpass Usyk's so according to your reasoning he will be an ATG HW.

 

Usyk's wins had cultural impacts, Dubois have not.

 

Atg for me is at most top 3, there’s no way you can say it is a top 20, or top 15 or even a top 10, you are talking all time great, there can’t be a list that big, it devalues the status as all time

 

There have been well over a hundred thousand male professional boxers in the Queensberry era. BoxRec alone has 101,361 listed (74,598 inactive and 26,763 active). Just accepting that number - which is a low-ball - being top 100 p4p all time puts you in the uppermost 0.009%, ever. Pretty damn exclusive.

@cuchulain estimated there have been well in excess of 40k heavyweights, and surmised that a similar top 100 cutoff at HW still means you're talking about guys in the highest quarter of a percent.

3 feels a little stingy. :lol;

 

And you are welcome to have your own standards, but I don't know that anyone would agree with that.

According to Boxrec, there have been 35,368 men to compete at heavyweight under Queensbury rules. There are countless thousands more whose names are list to history. I think most people feel that the 10-20 best of that lot are great fighters.

Just something to chew on.

 

This post gave me pause for thought. I don't, and never have, thought Usyk deserves ATG status at heavyweight, resume to thin, not enough fights. But. H2H. Guy would hang with most, and beat some fighters who I'd consider ATGs. So I guess, for me, objectively Usyk isn't an ATG, but subjectively I guess he is. I'll take the splinters out my arse now, that fence wasn't hella comfortable anyway..

 

I’m a perfectionist and it’s a curse

 

I’m aware of that but if you say there can only be one greatest ever, one goat then how far do you expand after that, I stand by my 3, I have no doubt that I will be in the minority here but iam a perfectionist

 

He is clearly one of the best all time
That I’ve seen live in my life time.

 

I include his CW run and his WSB run as well when evaluating his HW career. And why not? Plenty of HWs in the past have fought four rounders early in their careers and Usyk was doing it against the likes of Nistor and Joyce from the get go. Plus, most HWs were historically CWs by weight alone or fought a large portion of CWs and even smaller men during their HW run. So I'll feel free to include the above and not just artificially limit Usyk's career to the dozen or so fights he's had above the 200 limit because otherwise in the interest of fairness a whole lot of historically great HWs get similarly neutered and their resumes turned to dogcrap.

 

It would be a good win but to give an example Buster Douglas didn't become an ATG for beating Mike Tyson.
I'm not comparing the two when I say that before anyone starts saying otherwise

 

As you like.