Jack Dempsey v Muhammad Ali

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by manbearpig, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    I've been watching quite a lot of ali lately and i've come to 2 conclusions.

    1) ali has the greatest chin in hw history.

    2) only 1 selection of attributes can lead to him losing on points.

    Frazier was his kryptonite and I don't think anyone else could replicate his success.

    Dempsey might be able to match frazier in terms of aggression but he isn't as big, as conditioned nor as stylistically made to beat ali.

    Frazier aside, ali beats every hw in history.

    I used to pick louis to beat ali by late round stoppage but I don't think anyone could actually stop ali.

    Dempsey here is too wild. He found himself being countered by fulton so ali would have no trouble catching jack clean as he bored in.

    If anyone can match jack's agility it's ali. His timing and speed advantage should see him beat jack to the punch.

    My pick is ali wide ud.
     
  2. hookfromhell

    hookfromhell Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Alihis speed and chin would prevail.If Ali survived prime Foreman he survives Demsey.
    AliUD
     
  3. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing

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    Dempsey was a harder hitter than Frazier....and Dempsey´s left hook was a great one too.....
    On the other hand, Frazier was a better pressure fighter IMO.....with a higher workrate...

    Close fight.......put a gun on my head and I pick Ali.....but not with too much confidence I have to say....
     
  4. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing

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    Well.....Does that matter if JD is a harder hitter and at least as tough as Frazier ?
     
  5. manbearpig

    manbearpig A Scottish Noob Full Member

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    i understand the argument that Frazier is 'Ali's krytonite', but I don't buy it completely.

    Ali made a fight of it when he wasn't at his best, and his amazing performance doesn't mean Ali was 'prime'. A fighter who is away from the professional game for three years, gets older, puts on weight and loses a bit of mobility isn't at his best. He looks so impressive because he is ****ing Muhammad Ali.

    Also the fact that Ali beat him 2 out of the three kinda adds to the argument against Frazier being the perfect style to beat Ali.
     
  6. Lartize

    Lartize Active Member Full Member

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    I'm not sure what your criteria is for saying Ali has the best Chin in HW history. If we are talking about actually ability to take a shot cleanly George Chuvalo should win here.

    There is a lot to consider when talking about chins... Do you count shots taken, times been on floor.. does it count as less chin if they run out of Gas first (probably one of the reasons Ali's chin was so well, is he normally had more gas in the gas tank then his opponents later in the fight.. instead of the other way around); citing specific fights would be Foreman vs Ali and Tyson vs Lewis. I feel like exhaustion plays a large roll in it.. so I'm not sure how you handle those situations.
     
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    My criteria is the most unknockoutable.

    Ali is the most unknockoutable heavyweight in history.
     
  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    It does matter because the physicality is part of the puzzle imo.
     
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    It's certainly debatable.

    Maybe I put too much stock in the fotc, hard to say.

    I think the last two fights mean a lot less because of how far frazier had slipped.
     
  10. Ren

    Ren Active Member Full Member

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    Ali would wreck Demps, Demps never faced someone of Alis calibre.
     
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Even a fat Ali beats him like a red headed stepchild. Dempsey didn't like shifty, quick small guys, how is he going to feel about a huge, lightning fast guy?

    Plus, Dempsey has a serious lack of defensive skill when he gets in the fray.

    I'm thinking a stoppage is quite likely.
     
  12. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "Dempsey here is too wild. He found himself being countered by Fulton so Ali would have no trouble catching Jack clean as he bored in."

    Fulton???

    How much countering can you do in an 18 second fight, including the count?

    "I don't think anyone could actually stop Ali"

    If fighting under the rules of his own day, Dempsey certainly has a shot if he can stun Ali and knock him down. Being able to stand behind Ali would present Ali with problems he never faced in his own era.
     
  13. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Dempsey had a lethal right hand to go along with his hook, and Ali didn't mind giving away body shots. Tunney did catch Jack when the Mauler was shot, but the Marine was also a lot smarter and more studious than the GOAT.

    This isn't something I'd put money on. I do think it goes the limit. Dempsey proved in Brennan II that he had late round knockout power, and that he could dominate a master boxer over the championship distance in Shelby. Ali can't count on him gassing, and Jack can't count on his body shots wearing Muhammad down.

    Both have flaws which make this dangerous to predict.
     
  14. manbearpig

    manbearpig A Scottish Noob Full Member

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    I don't think there was any visible difference or quantifiable catalyst which would prove Frazier slipped any more than Ali had in his time away. All fights were close, and I think that definitely proves their fights would always be wars which go down the wire, in any case.
     
  15. Ren

    Ren Active Member Full Member

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    Dempsey was hardly shot, just slowing a little. no one is shot at 31, unless they are too mentally weak to keep themselves in shape. At 31 fighters are more than capable of whipping himself into good shape if they have the mental strength to do it. Demps lacked it. He let himself go.

    All Dempsey proved by slowing at 31 is that he didnt have the goods to stay a champ for long, thats his fault, not Alis.