Why? Give me a detailed breakdown. Why was he worse either technicaly or in terms of physical attributes? I see a lot of people on this site who are verry keen on criticising Willard to further their own agenda but not so hot at backing it up.
Is that the 37 year old cowboy who moonlighted as a professional boxer, the one who hadn't fought in 3 years when Dempsey faced him? He had been fighting at over 200 pounds for more than 2 years. Numbers don't lie unless you also believe that a pound weighed more and an inch was longer in the 1920's. And are you suggesting that Spinks was an undertrained fighter? Ahh... The Ed Dunkhorst Retort... The real question is Who did Dempsey face of Real Heavyweight Size, anywhere near the dimensions of those Tyson fought in this sequence, AND of Elite World Class level? String bean Fred Fulton? Old cowpoke, "I thought he was retired", Jess Willard? And more to point, the question isn't whether Dempsey could win a one-off against any one of these fighters (yes, he could) but how he would fare fighting this line-up, each and everyone of them, over a mere 2 years?
Tunney easily outboxed him, Holmes, Tubbs, Tucker, Thomas, Biggs could all do the same with their jabbing elusive styles but hand out a bigger beating and stop him because they are bigger and stronger Spinks I'm not sure, we've seen Spinks blown out so he is vulnerable, but ofcourse Dempsey is nowhere near as powerful or as skilled as Tyson. Spinks skills would also be better than anything Dempsey managed to overcome in his career Bruno, Smith and Berbick are the less skilled stiffer opposition that Dempsey would have more success against. Still all 3 are more skilled and better boxers than Willard or Firpo. Boxing evolved as sport after the 20s but Dempsey was never close to proving himself the best of that era as it was Jack Johnson was a LHW who used bulking techniques to get upto 210lbs, Dempsey was a LHW himself who bulked up, Patterson was a MW who bulked up to 185lbs, nothing new in eating your way up in weight
"Lineal title" is just fantasy bull**** conjuring when you have a champ who sits on his ass for three years (plenty of guys from plenty of walks were not in that War) and who draws the color line. I don't get the semi-mystical import from it that many do. Jess was a big, formidable man who was old and semi-retired. It would be stretch to even compare him to the Holmes of Tyson's resume, as Holmes was a consensus top-5 All Time Heavy and was to rise very high in ranks again at a later date. But if you must we can let those two cancel each other out in this discussion. (Tho Dempsey would have a very hard time against even an old Holmes). He was as tall and almost as rangy as Firpo. As I remember, Spinks modern bulking up technique was to eat more and not have to cut weight. That's not exactly quantum physics. He never faced one of the sorts of fighters in that list, let alone such a succession of them nor anything even remotely similar in such a short time. Big, long, elite (and also, black) heavies with top-level amateur training from an early age (all but Bonecrusher) not the rejects from some circus or rodeo or merchant marine. And oh, there would be no color line to protect him.
I have been on here for more than five years, and have debated with him for a fair amount of that time...... Believe me, its close....
Enough with the Wills crap already. The great and impartial Ray Arcel said Wills on his best day had no chance with Jack. Almost no one here gives Robinson crap for avoiding the top black fighters but most on here are always on Dempseys case about Wills. Read the facts Jack had no controle over makin that fight.
The reasons are not important. The fact is he did not fight the best fighter in the division for much of his reign. Many boxing wags also said Dempsey would get killed by Willard. That's why they fight the fights.
How many of those black fighters were the #1 contender for Robinson's title for the better part of six years?
Seamus, your a Dempsey hater and you don't know what the heck you are talking about...You sir are either trolling or are so hate filled that you dis tort history to fit your agenda. Good day...:hi: P.S. Dempsey kod bigger guys than Tyson did who were NATURALLY bigger than the few bigger HWs that Tyson did...What did Tyson do with Bonecrusher Smith ? Give your Dempsey hate a darn rest...
Tubbs and Thomas were drug addicts. They both had some natural talent but neither is gonna take much at all in terms of pressure from Dempsey. Biggs was soft. He cant take it for very long. All those guys get Knocked out more than likely. Berbick had some size but after Dempsey finished him he probably wouldnt look much better than Willard. Holmes and Spinks were exceptional fighters so they would both have a realistic shot at winning. Like Willard, Larry Holmes was also inactive and took that Tyson fight not in the best condition. So if Dempsey faced that version he may get a similar outcome. A prime Larry Holmes would be another story.
I haven't even given my picks yet. The more I think about it, the better chance I give Dempsey but the tough part is doing it in two years. His career offers no precedent for it. He fought a different brand of fighter, essentially drew the color line and sat on the title. And nothing is more agendized than the misty eyed Paul Bunyan tales of yesteryear. Christ almighty, sorry if I ask questions that provide discomfort...