Jack Dempsey vs Joe Frazier, primes

I can't help feeling a 200lbs+ Dempsey might be quite sluggish rather than fast, considering his Peak fighting weight was below 190lbs.

Interesting that you say Dempsey was broader than Frazier in a photo, can you post the photo please?

 

@Duo: Are you referring to this photograph?

This content is protected

 

Dempsay would've ducked Frazier anyway... :hey

 

Yeah he would have fought guys like Zyglewicz,Stander ,and Daniels instead .

 

No, the famous one published in Jack's autobiography where Frazier, Dempsey, Carpentier and Tunney are standing together in the Madison Square Garden ring from left to right, with Joe holding a gift wrapped package for Jack, and turned speaking to him, facing up at him as Dempsey looks at the camera (A quick Google search just now failed to turn it up, and I don't have the book handy at the moment. Everybody who's read Jack's 1977 autobiography knows what picture I'm referring to.)

 

The young Dempsey was very mobile on his feet in need be.....and could hit very hard with both hands.

Frazier is in real trouble if he gets wobbled early.

 

Here's a link to it, scanned from the book. (I'd forgotten Jack Sharkey was also in it. Note that Dempsey is actually the tallest of the five, a shade more than Tunney, consistent with records. Also note how slight Carpentier is, considerably smaller than Dempsey and Tunney):

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4242953&postcount=16

 

You're right. I remember thinking the same thing. Got a copy on evilbay a year ago for $5. Not bad. Demps looked much bigger.

 

And we have a result!


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDzmrrwPLMM[/ame]



Uhmmmm ... I was expecting a bit more to it than that!

 

Dempsey probably drops Frazier in the first three rounds. The body attack of Frazier though I think wears Dempsey down, with Frazier scoring the KO around the 9th.

 

But we're talking about the real Dempsey here, not a mythical Dempsey that gained 15-25 pounds of muscle.

 

Well, carlosg815 is talking about the real Jack Dempsey, in so far as the real Jack Dempsey had a potential for a certain weight in certain circumstances. He may or may not be estimating correctly how this potential would be in act if Jack came along in Joe's time and developed in analogy (ie, in proportion to the opportunities of the era) to how he had developed in the 1910's and 1920's; but whether or not he is estimating correctly, he is refering his estimate to the real Jack Dempsey, in so far as Dempsey possessed a natural potential for weight.

 

But we've never seen Dempset fight at 215. So you can't really base this fight using a 215 pound Dempsey, which he is saying we should factor in.

 

John Lester Johnson broke three of Jack's ribs in round two, yet failed to take him out within ten, and in fact it was Johnson who was described as being very tired at the end from heavy punishment to the body and head. Aside from the two bouts with Tunney, he doesn't seem to have had any issues with stamina. Brennan II was a virtuous display of late round power, and he was coming on after a rough start with Sharkey when the controversial end came. Tommy Gibbons was fading after 15, and may not have made it to the final bell in a 20 rounder.

Dempsey was a much harder puncher than Jerry Quarry, who did have some success in the opening two rounds with Frazier in 1969. If Jerry could land on Joe, then Jack certainly could do it. Jimmy Cannon observed after Frazier-Bonavena I that Smoke didn't really have the kind of chin necessary to support his style, although he became somebody I consider a top five HW from 1969 to 1971. For me though, the Dempsey of Toldeo is a top three HW. If he had the power to devastate Willard with a single shot like he did, then he had the power to ambush Joe the way Foreman did in Jamaica, and the speed to deliver it successfully.