Jack Dempsey vs Joe Frazier

But that's the part that makes this fantasy matchups so interesting. :good

 

Honestly how can anyone say with any sense of certainty that Dempsey vs. Frazier, Dempsey vs. Marciano or Marciano vs. Frazier would end one way or the other. It's a bit of a crap shoot since none of the fighters mentioned has fought the exact mix of talent as the others. Who did Demsey beat that fights like Frazier? Who did Rocky beat that fights very similar to Dempsey? See what I mean?

 

That's my point. :thumbsup

 

Jimmy Ellis was a former middlewight and so was Maurice Harris and Mickey Walker and we know Walker showed a lot of heart in his fight with Schmeling

to Answer your question. Shavers teed off with his best punches landed cleanly vs the following opponents

1) Ron Stander(Stander KO5, Shavers hit Stander with all of his best then folds)

2)Vincente Rondon) Former Middleweight who was KO in 8 by Bennie Briscoe (Shavers w10, Shavers can not stop Rondon(who was Ko'd by Bob Foster in2) and Middleweight Benny Briscoe in 8

3)Bob Stallings( the 5"9 Stallings(20-25-0) took Earnies best and dropped Earnie for a 9 count(Stalling w10

4) Tex Cobb (no defense) took everything Earnie Had and came back (Cobb TKO8
5) Bernard Mercado, after being dropped by a huge right hand,Mercado came back to stop Shavers

Foreman
Levi Forte, The often KO'd 6"Forte got off the floor to go the distance with George (Foreman w10
Gregorio Peralta, In both fights (20 rds)Foreman landed some of his best bombs but could not put the former light heavy on the deck
Joe Frazier...Foreman teed off on Frazier, dropping him 6 times but Frazier got up each time and the RSC 2
comback
Alex Stewart, George hit Stewart with everything but many felt Alex was robbed
Dwight Quawi, the 5"7 Quawi make a good fight of it and George can not land the clean KO, RSC7
Everrit Martin 5"11( Foreman drops Martin but Big Foot gets up to survive ( Foreman w10

David Tua

Everton Davis Tua drops the 9-3 Davis 2 times but can not score the KO ( Tua w10
Lester Jackson...Tua lands many bombs but Jackson goes 10 ( Ta w10
Jeff Wooden...Tua lands his best to no effect( Tua sd 10
Rahman 2 Tua lands some of his bombs on Rahman in an uneventful fight (Draw 12
Cisse Saliff (Tua hits Saliff with his best (Tua sd 10
Robert Hawkins (Tua lands some of his best bombs on Hawkins, Hawkins gets KO in 5 by Vladmir Virchis in the same year(Tua w10

Lennox Lewis
Levi Billips 6"ft. Lewis hits the often KO'd Billips but is unable to stop him, Billips KO'd in 1 rd by Corrie Sanders a year later (Lewis w10

Ossie Ocasio Lewis tees off on the 5"11 Ocasio for the win( Lewis w8

Zeljko Mavovic Lewis land some heavy shots vs Zeljko but can not put Z.M down (Lewis w12

In most of these fights including the Marciano/Cockell fight the opponent was shorter than the mentioned fighter (excluding Tua who is 5"10) sometime shorter fighter are harder to get good leverage on but every Champ has the type of fighter that gives his all to survive in a big fight effort.

 

INteresting. How many of these fights was the lesser fighter basically a punching bag, not elusive but a punching bag ?

How many were during the dominate fighters prime ?
My question, and you may very well have answered it with a few of these responses, was who simply would not go for whatever reason ..

I have read a theory on Rocky that may hold water ... to continue to polish him as fighter, his trainers kept pushing his to shorten his swings and as a result it took an edge of his power ... this was post title victory and it might have been reflected in the Cockell fight where Rocky was a bit rusty, a bit overtrained and a bit flat. Let's face it , afgter facing Walcott, Charles and defeating a thorn in your side like LaStarza, it was likely a bit hard for him to get up for Cockell ...

 

True....its a lot easier to get up for a big name but you got to always remember your opponent is getting up for you.

Shavers was on a roll when he fought the former middleweight Vincente Rondon ( Rondon was stopped by one of my Favorites (Bad Benny Briscoe and Ko'd by light heavyweight Bob Foster in 2, he was also KO'd by Ron Lyle in 2 but Shavers hit him with everything and won a 10 rd decision but could not stop Rondon.

Shavers was also kind of prime vs Bob Stallings who was short and stocky but Shaver could not hurt Stallings who had a 20-25 record and was stopped before many times. Stallings dropped EARNIE and took the nod but it happens

Remember middleweight Bobby Cyz ( who was beaten by Hamsho) put up a stuborn effort vs Holyfield, who would think based off that performance that Holyfield would next KO Mike Tyson

 

I picked Frazier over Dempsey based on what I can actually see, not merely read on paper............. Frazier's highlights and films are way more up to par than the crude footage that most films of Dempsey depict....... And I don't place a lot of stock in rumors or stories told by Tex Rickard or Doc Kearns, neither.......

I see Joe Frazier from '66 to '72 being much better trained and handled with the likes of Yankee Durham and Edward Futch in Frazier's corner....... Also, Frazier was more active and was fighting damn good fighters like "Bonavena, Mathis, Ellis & Quarry enroute to his meeting with Ali in 1971.........

Jack Dempsey prolly fought better fighters while moving up the ladder in the teen years of the 20th century.... In truth, I am not impressed with several of Dempsey's title challengers like Tommy Gibbons who was near 183 pounds or George Carpentier at + or - 180 pounds.......... And, C'mon, we all know now that Luis Firpo was a hulking powerhouse who had little skill and no finess........ I see Dempsey making good money by taking minimal risks from 1920 thru 1923...... Not kool......... And Dempsey didn't do **** in 1924 or 1925 except chase that actress wife of his to Hollywood to appear in films.......

I truly think the Frazier of '70 chases the 1921 Dempsey right out of the ring for a TKO win......... I can't see how Dempsey beats Frazier...... Frazier doesn't lose to 190 pounders.......... NOPE!

MR.BILL

 

Joe Frazier was a slow starter and Dempsey was arguably the most dangerous champion in history over thge first four rounds.

You would need a prety clear idea of how Frazier was going to make it out of the first few rounds before you started to talk about him winning.

 

why is the poll not public!

 

Janitor,

Jesus, Mary and Joseph....... Frazier was only iced / smoked out 2 X in his career......... All by Foreman........... Ali scored a 12 rd decision and a TKO 15 win over Frazier in 1974 / '75......... That's it...........

YES! "Ringo" decked Frazier good in '66, but Frazier recovered from the hammering that the strong and powerful Bonavena dished out......

I don't buy Frazier was hurt by Foster in '70..... I have the fight..... I've looked it over a dozen times or so........... Frazier was all over Foster like stink on ****........ Frazier KO2 Foster......

Frazier may have been a slow starter for a round or two, but he had his motor running by the third stanza in his fights / career........ And, just because he sometimes started slowly doesn't mean he was a ***** and there to be taken out..........

MR.BILL:hat

 

You see the problem is that if you are slow for the first three rounds against Dempsey you are going to end up as roadkill.

If your vision for this fight involved Dempsey being able to unload his big artilery on Frazier for three rounds without suffering unaceptable punishment himself then he ios going to loose.

Nobody could aford to let Dempsey tee off on them, however tough they were.

 

Holy moly......... You know, regardless of what history says about Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena in terms of sheer greatness as a fighter, nobody can discount them two guys' punching power and ability to inflict damage on a world class fighter from ANY era if either Quarry and Bonavena lands their bread and butter punches upside a *******'s head in the ring........

I'll go out on a limb and say Jack Dempsey surely packed power in both fists, and is no doubt considered the much greater fighter than "Quarry & Bonavena" as well, but did he really hit harder than the punches Joe Frazier took from Jerry and Oscar in the late 60's????

Jerry Quarry and "Ringo" Bonavena knew how to wallop very well......... And BOTH guys hit Frazier with the kitchen sink and soap bar, too.......... Frazier was either decked or hurt by them guys at times, but he managed to come out on top as the winner every time he fought them dudes.......

I think Jack Dempsey would've **** a brick in the early 20's if he were facing a late 60's version of both Quarry and Bonavena in a time machine....... Them guys were definately better than "Gibbons, Carpentier and Firpo."

MR.BILL