Jack Johnson v Gene Tunney

I would probably say that Jack Johnson wins a UD over Tunney and maybe even floors him. seeing as Johnson is the bigger and stronger man, that's why he would take this matchup IMO. close fight though.

 

I don't know what films some of you are looking at, but most of the films I have seen of Jack Johnson's fights show a master at work. From the comments I see, I'm probably in the minority here, but I would have great trouble trying to find a spot for Gene in an all-time heavyweight top 10 list, whereas Jack would make my top 10 list easily. In a 10-15 round fight, I'll go with Jack Johnson by a decision win over Gene Tunney.

 

So, let me understand. Johnson has a better chin because Tunney wasn't tested by a multitude of true heavies... though Johnson was KO'd by a light heavy and KD'd by a middleweight.

Johnson has better footwork because he out-manuevered a midget 167 pound fighter.

Johnson was a giant compared to Tunney because he was half an inch taller and 15 pounds heavier.

Johnson floors Tunney... even though only the hardest puncher of the first 30 years of boxing was able to achieve this feat.

Tunney was never tested.... not against Gibbons, Dempsey TIMES 2 (who was good enough to beat Sharkey in the interim), Jeff Smith, Greb TIMES 5, Loughran, Levinsky, Carpentier... I don't care what color these guys were, they represent one hell of a resume.

OK. I got it.

Thanks for enlightening me.

 

1. This happened when Johnson was only 170lb himself. He was nowhere near his prime physically when the knockout took place. It is not like these guys knocked out the physically grown 205lb Jack Johnson of 1908-1910.

2. Yes. Tunney was not tested by any 200lb + puncher. The only heavyweight puncher he did fight, put him down for 14 seconds. I think Tunney had a good chin, but I also think it is unproven in some regards. It would have been real interesting had he taken on George Godfrey, who issued him challenges daily. He would have been unlike any opponent he ever fought.

 

Yes, one hell of a resume. But..... how many of these men were signifigantly smaller than him? How many were past their best days? How many of these men were not big punchers? Most of them.

Dempsey knocked out Sharkey with a shot to the balls. So did Wills. The difference is, The referee DQed Wills, while he allowed Dempsey to illegally follow up with a left hook when Sharkey was already in agony. Dempsey took to desperate measures because sharkey was beating the hell out of him, and was quite the better fighter than him at that point in time.

 

He was 178 against Choynski and 204 against Ketchell.

Marvin Hart would not have lasted 8 rounds with Tunney.

Wills was getting destroyed by Sharkey. Please don't contend he was winning that fight.

 

1. 178lb is still 30lb lighter than his peak weight of 205lb. That's a big difference. Also, where is your source Johnson was 178lb vs Choynski?

2. Ketchel did not knockout Johnson. Ketchel is also one of the hardest hitters who ever lived. Many say he hit as hard as Bob Fitzsimmons.

3. Marvin Hart may not have lasted 8 rounds with Tunney, but a 162lb Greb would not beat Johnson 2 out of 5 times at his best. In fact, Johnson would throw Greb around like a Ragdoll the way he did to Burns, Langford, and Ketchel.

 

I won't. But Guess what. So was Dempsey!! He was getting destroyed too. Difference is when Wills hit Sharkey low, the Ref DQed him. When Dempsey hit Sharkey low, the Ref didn't DQ Dempsey.

 

Dempsey's only relevance to the Tunney argument was that Dempsey hit hard and did not KO Tunney. I know Dempsey was over the hill, but power is the last thing to go... and he still had plenty.

 

I agree he had plenty. But that's just it. He floored Tunney for 14 seconds. This could and maybe should have been a knockout loss against Tunney.

 

Suzie, you know your stuff so I don't imply your wrong on anything, but while Dempsey was past his prime and had lost the fininshing touch its always sweet to see a past great get it back for just a few moments which Dempsey did with that left hook and-the finishing touch of of the left and right hooks as Gene was going down. It was one last glimps of Dempsey greatness.

The concensus from past posts and articles based on the long count tape and interviews with Gene would seem to give weight to Gene getting before the count of ten.

 

Timmers,

You know your stuff!! I agree Dempsey landed a wicked combination on Tunney. I have no doubt Tunney had a good chin even getting up from that in the first place.. but I also think those extra 5 seconds was all he needed to escape a old killer like dempsey! Tunney looked up at the ref when the count of "nine" should have been said. He could have got up right there, but...he was still groggy. Dempsey could and might have finished him off right there.

 

This is a close match and to be honest a hard pick.

Can Johnson make Tunney fight his fight or would it be the other way around.Tunney had the best feet I have seen until Walcott and Ali and Gene moved more than JJW and about the same as a young Ali.

Johnson would pary and counter but he would be troubled with Genes quick hands and movement. Johnson was stronger in the clinch and may have hit harder.

I am leaning toward Johnson on a close decision but would not be surprised if Gene dazzled hit and moved his way to a close decision.

 

I don't think we know enough about either fighter to predict a winner here. We've don't know how Tunney would handle an elite HW the size of Johnson, and we don't know how Johnson would handle an elite HW as mobile/skilled as Tunney (with the closest comparison probably being Philly Jack O'Brien, who reportedly held Johnson even in a 6-round fight).

 

Good Point. Johnson did struggle with O Brien. I do wonder just how hard Johnson tried that fight though.