This. Way too soon to be comparing BJS to James Toney. Besides Andy Lee and Eubanks Jr., which were good wins BJS has fought awful competition.
James Toney was hot and cold at MW. He had to come from behind to ko Nunn and won a hotly disputed split dec against David Tiberi and won a split dec against Reggie Johnson and had a draw with McCallum. Saunders too busy for Toney. No gift dec this time. BJS on pts.
Nobody can name a slick, fast, durable fighter Toney dominated at 160 because it literally never happened. The rose colored glasses of history are in high style in this thread.
I'm one of Billy's biggest fans, but he's also been hot and cold. When discussing any fantasy fight, I think you should assume that the best version of each fighter would have shown up fighting to their full capabilities. Otherwise, it's an endless debate due to too many variables. At this stage, James would have to be favoured. Billy's yet to fight anyone on the level of Nunn, McCallum or Reggie.
Whoever wins takes it by razor close decision. Its two different styles coming together. Toney should be the favorite because its stupid to make the case for Saunders based off the Lemiuex win To see how the fight would look watch Toney against Reggie Johnson. It was close but that win along with Nunn gives Toney two wins against guys of Saundes style while Saunders has beaten nobody remotely as good as Toney.
Reggie Johnson and Dave Tiberi didn't beat a single top 10 MW between them before they fought Toney, and I thought James lost both of those fights. A fighter doesn't need to be "greater" historically to win H2H.
I know! It’s almost as asinine as saying Toney would lose to a guy like Dave Tiberi or something! This content is protected Saunders UD
I think too much is made of the Tiberi fight. Whilst it has to be acknowledged and it can't be ignored, it has to be noted that James was only young back then, fighting every 6-8 weeks at one point. He had a hectic schedule. Although styles make fights and you have to give Tiberi credit, you'd have to believe that James would have beaten him whilst fighting to his full capabilities. From what I've seen of Tiberi, he was a good fighter. But if James really wasn't good enough to have beaten him clearly on his best day, then how was he able to beat the likes of Nunn etc? Fighters have bad days at the office. Chris Eubank beat peak versions of Benn and Watson, yet looked awful against Dan Schommer and Ray Close. Billy himself looked truly awful recently against Artur Akavov. But now he's revitalised after teaming up with the Ingle's. He's fit and motivated. He's training hard with desire. He's now looking very sharp. And that's the mindset that James was in when he fought the likes of Nunn and Barkley etc. I'm high on Billy, and I think he'd have given Toney a great fight, as long as he was confident and 100% focused. But I don't think you can put forward a case for victory, just on the grounds that Tiberi beat him and Billy looks to be a better fighter than he was. It's not as simple as that.
Happy new year! Do you want to start a fresh, or are you going to insist on taking it to a playground level? Tiberi beat Toney. Even James admits that. But it's not enough to put forward a case of Billy beating Toney, just because Billy is better than Tiberi. I could post a video of Chris Eubank Snr struggling with Ray Close, and then say that Billy would have beaten Eubank, due to him being a better fighter than Close. Or I could just laugh at the notion that Billy could have beaten Toney, simply by uploading his recent fight with Artur Akavov. You can't predict a U/D for Billy just based on the Tiberi fight. Tiberi wasn't even a southpaw. You need to analyse the best versions of each fighter.