James Toney vs Joe Calzaghe.

Joe, based on activity and speed. Toney lost to lesser fighters.

 

baliey,

On one of your recent posts you said Toney testing himself against Jones at 168 wasn't Calzaghe's level because Jones wasn't a major factor then?

I don't understand this one.. At that time Jones was a bigger name than Calzaghe was for most of his career, at least in America Roy Jones was pretty huge, going back all the way to the Olympics. it was also a huge fight for a non HW fight in a time when the era was golden.

Roy would win fighter of the year for this performance, I think it is pretty clear that 168 lb Jones was on Calzaghe's level in a head to head fight.

 

Calzaghe all day everyday...46-0...

 

A true Calzaghe hater post.

You say Calzaghe has a lack of clinical skills, how do you become the greatest super middleweight of all time with 21 title defences and as you say 'Lack clinical skills'
Calzaghe did not wait and risk losing fights for a 'Window of gassing' to win, he clearly used his strengths which was his all round ability to work out weaknesses in his opponents.

Have a look at what Hopkins did AFTER he lost to Calzaghe to know he wasn't past his best

 

Allow me to explain.
Jones had no real SMW pedigree when Toney fought him.
Jones was known due to Olympic success, but how was he a factor with who he had beaten? He won a MW title, but that was it, even at that time fought against a few journeymen. Dont try and say he beat Hopkins because Hopkins then wasnt a factor and wouldnt win a MW title in even his next opportunity.
Jones hadnt at that time beaten anyone of real note other than Malinga. The Lucas win looks better over time, but wasnt rated at that time. So really his big win was Malinga after Eubank and Benn had beaten him.
As said Jones wasnt a factor when Toney was defending against him and became a factor for beating toney.
That definately isnt at the level of a reigning champ like Calzaghe at SMW. Hope that makes sense

 

Most of those title defenses were against sub par opposition

 

How do you get most when 17 of his 24 title fights were against fighters who were or became top 10?

 

How do you get most when 17 of his 24 title fights were against fighters who were or became top 10?

I should have added about Toneys SMW resume when he is the other fighter mentioned on here. Are you familier with his?

 

I only counted nine or ten top 10/future top ten

 

No it is 17 out of 24. An old post below, so ignore various comments

After Eubanks fight with Calzaghe

1. Frankie Liles*, 31-1, WBA champ
2. Joe Calzaghe* (Britain), 23-0, WBO champ
3. Robin Reid (Britain), 25-0-1, WBC champ
4. Joseph Kiwanuka (Uganda), 25-1-2
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   (Britain), 45-3-2

After Reid came back with a win and Malinga lost Reid was rated higher than you note when Calzaghe beat him

1: Joe Calzaghe* (Britain), 26-0, WBO champ
2: Frankie Liles*, 32-1, WBA champ
3: Richie Woodhall (Britain), 25-1, WBC champ
4:

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(Britain), 27-1-1

Starie became
1: Joe Calzaghe* (GB), 34-0, WBO
2: Sven Ottke (Germany), 27-0, IBF
3: Eric Lucas (Canada), 35-4-3, WBC
4: Antwun Echols, 29-4-1
5: Robin Reid (GB), 32-3-1
6: Byron Mitchell, 25-1-1, WBA
7:

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(GB), 30-2

Sheika who you didnt note when Calzaghe beat him
1: Joe Calzaghe* (Britain), 28-0, WBO
2: Sven Ottke (Germany), 19-0, IBF
3: Glenn Catley (Britain), 26-3, WBC
4: Bruno Girard (France), 37-2-1, WBA
5: Byron Mitchell, 20-1-1
6: Markus Beyer (Germany), 18-1
7: Richie Woodhall (Britain), 26-2
8: James Butler, 16-1
9: Charles Brewer, 35-6
10:

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20-1

Woodhall - Beyer who beat Woodhall was KOd by Woodhall victim Catley
1: Joe Calzaghe* (Britain), 29-0, WBO
2: Sven Ottke (Germany), 20-0, IBF
3: Bruno Girard (France), 38-2-1, WBA
4: Byron Mitchell, 21-1-1
5:

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(Britain), 26-2
6: Dingaan Thobela (South Africa), 40-7-2, WBC
7: Glenn Catley (Britain), 26-4
8: Markus Beyer (Germany), 18-1

Veit when Calzaghe fought him a 2nd time
1: Joe Calzaghe* (GB), 38-0, WBO

2: Jeff Lacy, 19-0-0-1, IBF

3: Mikkel Kessler (Denmark), 35-0, WBA

4: Markus Beyer* (Germany), 32-2, WBC

5: Danny Green (Australia), 19-2

6: Mads L****n* (Denmark), 45-2

7: Robin Reid (GB), 38-4-1, IBO

8: Anthony Mundine (Australia), 23-2

9:

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(Germany), 45-1

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you note who also wasnt coming off a loss

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you note, but you dont note how Mitchell was coming off a SD loss to Ottke which was very debateable.

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did enter into the ratings after his KO win of the undefeated European SMW champ 26-0 J Chanet
Ashira was rated at MW

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you note

Bika before he fought Calzaghe

1: Joe Calzaghe* (GB), 41-0, WBO/IBF

2: Mikkel Kessler (Denmark), 37-0, WBA

3: Markus Beyer* (Germany), 34-2-1, WBC

4: Jeff Lacy, 21-1-0-1

5: Anthony Mundine (Australia), 26-3

6: Librado Andrade, 24-0

7: Danny Green (Australia), 21-3

8: Allan Green, 22-0

9: Rudi Markussen (Denmark), 33-1

10:

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(Australia), 20-1-2

Manfredo wasnt coming off a loss and was world rated

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you note

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So if you work out how many fighters were top 10 rated and how many became top 10 rated after Calzaghe beat them he fought 22 SMW title fights and 15 were or became top 10 rated. I havent included Ferreyra who had been top 10 rated before fighting Calzaghe

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, Thats very good but even better when you note Calzaghes LHW career, because as a career total it becomes

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The ring rankings are relative to the point in time they are made. It is a list of the top fighters in a division at a certain point in time. Being top 10 in a weak division is not the same as being top ten in a solid division. Reid making the top ten that means the division is weak, not that Reid is good.

 

Starie, Sheika, Mkrchen, Ashira, Woodhall, Veit x2 were not top ten rated Ring fighters at 168 when Calzaghe fought them, nor did they become them.

I haven't see the historical Transnational boxing board ratings, so can't comment.

 

I'm familiar with his but no one here is claiming he is the best smw because he defended his belt against weak opposition


ps: Most of the guys you list as Toney's smw opposition did not even fight him at smw.

 

It wasnt my list, as noted on the post. But they were who he was fighting when SMW champ

 

Ashira wasnt at SMW, but was top 10 rated at MW.
Also why are you reffering to The Ring as if that is some be all and not just an opinion? They have in my opinion been very odd when rating SMWs.