Jeffries got what he deserved ...

Don't say that until you have read mine.

In the Ring With Jack Johnson - Part II: The Reign will lay it all out there and then some, as did Part I: The Rise. What is being discussed in this forum is all there.

 

Okay. I sense some foreshadowing!

 

I don't think Johnson gets a great deal of credit, every post I read emphasises Jeffries inactivity as indeed it should.


On the other hand Mendoza , Jeffries biggest booster claims Peter Jackson was in good condition when he fought Jeffries.

 

I doubt there is anyone around who has a more comprehensive knowledge of Langford than Clay Moyle, he believes Johnson beats Langford.
As far as chins go Langford was dropped over 22 times.
Langford was very strong?
I sincerely doubt he was as strong as Johnson.

What leverage? what is this remark based on?:huh
To answer your first question:
If 156lbs Langford with over 50 fights under his belt could not make any kind of a show against the 185lbs Johnson ,having his nose broken, and being dropped twice for 9 counts ,why would he do better against the 208lbs version of Johnson?

There is also some speculation that Johnson allowed Langford to last the 15rds.

 

Its not me, you dolt. It was the papers and sports writers who watched him train for the fight. Jackson did have a good first round. But even in his prime, he didn't have a top level chin, and that was his downfall vs Jeffries.

As for Langford he was 20 and 2 pounds over junior middle limit when the fight took place. He's not beating a more experienced cruiser weight.

However boxing history is full of cruiser's beating heavies under 210 pounds, especially when the cruisers hits harder, and takes the better punch.

I'm sure the rest of the board, and Clay will agree with the above Langford comments.

 

Only Johnson fought more black guys than Jeffries ever did.. and by a lot. So I'm really unclear how he drew the color as bad, let alone worse.

 

I doubt he came out of the womb as you describe him. To think that much of his behavior wasn't derived from racial experiences growing up isn't the best logical line of thought. No doubt that it did, and a huge impact at that. By the way, not sure how he can't be an icon in some sectors

 

Johnson had like 70 more fights than Jeffries. Jeffries fought just about everybody.

 

He drew the color line after he became champion. Just like Jeffries.

 

The post I quoted made no reference to when they were Champion. Even if that was the intention.. the huge and glaring elephant in the room is.. Johnson had already beaten the men you're saying he ducked... The same is not true of Jeffries. Huge huge difference.

 

Johnson didn't? he fought the best black challengers before he won the title and the best white challengers after. You act like he avoided people like the plague. The people he gets criticized for avoiding he had already beaten and EASILY at that.

 

Joe Gans, George Dixon, Joe Walcott, Peter Jackson and whoever else you can name were as black as Johnson. How many of them f*cked for every black boxer that came after them for years to come?

 

The post you quoted also mention f*ck all about ducking. I doubt any of the posters criticizing Johnson have any doubt he could beat them all for as long as he kept in shape (except maybe Mendoza). And he didn't need to mention the Championship cause it's obvious he's talking about the championship. What the thread title says? We're not talking about Jeffries HW rank.

 

Ahhh the old... Look how this African American didn't act out and acted like a good bleep bleep bleep... please. That is about as bad an argument as one could make.

 

Yeah this is a good point. Those guys seem to have been universally accepted and respected outside of the most rabidly biased/racist sectors. When Gans-Nelson 1 took place Nelson had at least a passable argument that Gans tanked it when he started to wear down and yet it was Nelson who came away with his reputation shattered and being called a "miserable cur" because of his behavior toward Gans. The bottom line is that more African Americans were upstanding, law abiding citizens who were perfectly socialized regardless of their circumstances. The excuses being bandied about for Johnson are just that, excuses. And frankly there is no excuse for his behavior and he was judged as such not just by white society but also by his peers and by people from other cultures as well. So no, I reject the idea that Johnson was an some sort of civil rights icon and I reject the idea that his behavior was a product of being a black man brought up in white America. The guy was a jerk when people who had it as "bad" or worse than he did did not stoop to their baser instincts.