No, I can’t recall the specific newspapers - but, on top of those source articles, references or allusions to source articles were probably also included in Adam Pollack’s book on Jeffries. A quick google found this article (below) anyway - Jeffries being “staggered” in round 8. I think it’s a false impression that Jeffries took all the punishment that he did without sometimes being actually hurt or at least a bit distressed - and against somewhat smaller men. After he faced Johnson, Jeffries said that he was surprised by the “stiffness” of Johnson’s punch - no wonder - not just in terms of skill but also size, Johnson was a clear exception to the smaller, upper echelon HWs Jeffries had previously faced. By 1910, Johnson was an absolute rock solid 205-208 lbs. Ripped, no fat. With both skill and size combined, Johnson was a far sterner opponent than Jeffries had ever faced. Johnson clearly carried Jeff - looking like he could’ve ended the fight much earlier if he was so inclined. [url]https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/packages/html/sports/year_in_sports/08.14.html?scp=1&sq=james%2520chin&st=cse[/url]
Johnson clearly outclassed Jeffries in their meeting though, that much is obvious. However, it's also possible that Jeffries reacting so strongly to Johnson's punches have to do with how much his body and durability deteriorated during his inactivity. From the descriptions I've seen, Jeffries seemed to treat destroying his body like a sport during his first retirement.
To start and end the conversation, Jeffires has ZERO CHANCE of lasting more than a few rounds with Holy, so any imagined advantage in endurance (which there would only be in Holy's favor) is inconsequential.
Frank - Jeffries did somehow absorb a tremendous amount of punishment before finally falling to Johnson. Absolute credit to his chin and heart for that. However, Johnson still carried Jeff imo, he could’ve easily ended the fight much sooner. Fortunately for us fans, we have a clearly labelled/identified round 4 in Reno. Toward the end of that round, Johnson easily twists Jeffries left arm behind his back. The only way Jeffries extricates himself is to move back and give ground. An obviously compartmentalised demonstration of strength. A moment or two later, Johnson pointedly lines Jeff up and hits Jeff with a sizzling right hand - showing evidence of a greater commitment to punch hard than in other times during the fight. That single punch caused a clearly hurt Jeffries to stumble forward into Johnson’s arms with the round ending at the same time. As he walks toward his corner, Jeffries appears to wipe at his nose - impossible to say for sure but not unreasonable to guess that it was that right hand that broke Jeff’s nose. I really think Johnson could’ve ended it anytime after that - but Johnson wanted to twist the knife - and a fight film of worthwhile length would’ve also been among Jack’s considerations. Johnson ****ed around with Ketchel for 8 rounds, literally holding him up to stop him from falling. Again, a fight film of fair length would’ve been one of Johnson’s motives. However, when Ketchel’s right caused Johnson to fall, Jack was seriously ****ded and ended it shortly thereafter, exactly as he pleased. I don’t think it was a legit KD by Ketchel - rather, Johnson fell whilst evading the Ketchel’s right hand - but it still caused the normally composed Johnson to become indignant and it was certainly enough to raise Johnson’s ire and give him cause to put Ketchel’s lights out. Ketch of course was just a MW, but the main point is that Johnson often fought well short of his full potential. There were write ups for a number of Johnson’s fight where it was observed that it appeared that Johnson could’ve ended proceedings a lot earlier than he did. There’s a close up photo of Jack in a clinch with Al Kaufman during their fight that went the full 10 round, ND - Jack easily being awarded the newspaper nod. Kaufman’s face is bloodied and badly swollen - barely recognisable. Really busted up. Kaufman was a decent size - 6’2” and about 190 lbs or so. He was also Johnson’s sparring partner and, it seems, a reasonable friend of Johnson’s - similar to Jack’s relationship with Ketchel. Even though clearly understated in himself, Johnson still could and would, albeit appear causal, mete out a serious *** whupping, even to those he was more amiably acquainted with.
Oh yeah, to be fair, Jeffries’ resilience may well have deteriorated during the intervening years. We only have Jeff’s one off comeback fight after 6 years - so no other fights to compare to in order to gage Jeff’s viability more broadly. Even if not as consummately as Johnson did, one could speculate that Langford could’ve tipped over Jeff in 1910 - There was a rumour that Jeff had a secret sparring session with Langford about 1 week prior to the fight to test the waters - and that Jeff was laid out in 4 rounds. As far as I’ve read - there are no other substantiations for that story otherwise - and it’s difficult to believe Jeff would risk such a thing so close to fight time anyway. In fact, Jeff’s camp was concerned over how little sparring Jeffries actually did do - and it seems Jeff dropped tools on preparation somewhat too early before the actual fight. My theory on that is that Jeff was extremely stressed at the prospect of carrying the hopes of the white race on his shoulders and not putting in sufficient sparring etc. was perhaps a symptom of Jeff being in denial. It appears well corroborated that Jeff might’ve had a virtual breakdown several days before the fight - and that he could only pace up and down and not even get any sleep the night before. Great to be talking the old timers again.
I agree with you on all points. I'm pretty sure Jefferies said afterwards that Johnson would have beaten him at any time in his career.
Yeah, that quote is interesting. I’ve wondered if Jeffries actually said it. Jeff was past his best and under no obligation to say such a thing and it wouldn’t have untoward for Jeff to have at least believed himself that he could’ve beaten Johnson when Jeff was at peak. The full quote I’ve heard included Jeff stating “I could never have beaten Johnson, I could never have reached him, not in a thousand years”. It was also noted that Jeff asked his handlers to ask Johnson if Jeff could have his gloves (as a memento, I assume). After copping such a beat down with those very gloves, I personally wouldn’t have been asking for same. In contrast to this, when Johnson approached Jeffries to shake hands after the fight - he was deflected from doing same by Jeff’s handlers I think. Jeffries had also already refused to shake Johnson’s hand before the fight. Later, of course, Jeffries claimed that he was drugged before the fight. The most believable thing I’ve read is that Jeffries said he been younger, the fight would’ve been a lot different - and that was still said without Jeff committing to whether he thought he’d win or not - IIRC.
I understand the interest in putting together mythical matchups between boxers of different generations, but when they are as far apart as Holyfield and Jeffries it seems a bit harsh on the old timers. These were the guys that built the foundation that later generations would build off of. With that said, I would say with due respect to Jeffries, that Holyfield shouldn't have much difficulty here. I would be interested in what Jeffries could have done if you dropped his teenage self in the 1980s to learn modern boxing, then have him against Holyfield in the early 1990s. That could be very interesting if the legends of Jeffries athleticism are true.
Also, Tom Sharkey was a small but athletic beast who specialized in bull rushing and roughing up guys. He caused Jeffries to have a couple very tough fights. Holyfield seems like he'd be a nightmare for Jeffries with the above in mind.
I never said Evander would lose. I said he'd win basically every round and put on a clinic or stops Jeff. I said he had the advantage in nearly every single category. I'm just saying that claiming a guy who gassed in under 12 rounds on 3 separate occasions obviously doesn't have stamina as good as a boxer who went 20+ rounds multiple times. I get you're all about "modern athlete good, old athlete bad" but this is common sense.
I don't think Vander breaks a sweat if his opponent is Fitzsimmons or Sharkey or Corbett. He could a hundred rounds against those types, were they theoretically able to last beyond a round or two themselves.
Bohun Lynch, writing for the Times quoted Jeffries have having said it to him on the train back to his home.