Joan Guzman- Over rated??

He was quite the phenom @ 122 knocking guys out often. But his power didn't seem to follow up much. Thankfully he's a good enough boxer to win on points. But as someone said earlier, tends to be inconsistent. His fight w/ Alex Arthur might be interesting. He's big enough to do 135 IMHO. Just won't have a big punch, but he's used to that by now.

 

Yup...let someone else make the post then piggyback on their post. :hey

 

Guzman utilizes speed more often than sitting on his punches, but when puts his body and leverage on it he has pop...he wobbled Barrios in that fight, whom Jorge is known for a sturdy chin. He's talented with speed, sometimes sloppy.

 

He would give all the top fighters @130 and 135 a run for their money and probably dethrone the other title holders...

 

Guzman and JMM would be a WAR!!!

Guzman would expose PAC

Guzman vs Campbell would be great

Guzman vs Valero could be the future

 

:rofl

Enough of this "unproven' bull****. Non-elite fighters do not dominate Soto/Barrios and shut out someone like Jauregui effortlessly. Guzman is a proven elite, just like JMM/Pac are, just because he didn't fight someone elite doesn't mean anything. If you want to talk about common sense, then don't talk about how Guzman is "unproven" in the same post. He is proven. And although Pac/JMM have fought fighters on "Guzman's level" (elite fighters), they have not fought him, so their experience in the ring against fighters like Barrera and themselves won't really help them out much when fighting a multi-dimensional naturally gifted iron-chined slick improvisational trickster like Guzman. So again, don't mention this "unproven" ****, it means nothing. Look at videos and look at how the fighters perform, don't look at how many name fighters they have faced in the past to judge them. I bolded the last part of your paragraph because what you said is ridiculous. Who cares who people acknowledge as being better than Guzman? Simply put, over 95% of boxing fans that you're talking about don't know what they're talking about. "That's all the proof boxing fans need at this stage"? No, it's not. Analyze the damn matchups without looking at things that don't matter.

Again, he did it effectively enough to win at the very least 15 of the rounds in their two fights. He had significant success, no need to bring this up anymore.

Guzman has great reflexes and great defense. He also has an iron chin, so he doesn't always use his defensive abilities to the max and doesn't care about getting hit a little when he's easily outboxing fights. He fights in the pocket rather than using his movement sometimes because he has great success with it too. He could do what Mayweather does, but he chooses not to because he enjoys mixing it up and brawling when it's safe to. Guzman doesn't have "decent footspeed", he has great footspeed. Pac is a good offensive fighter, but his style is made for Guzman. He's one dimensional and his offense can be negated almost completely with movement and countering. It's been proven a ton of times. The only reason JMM has two losses is because of bad judging and his vulnerable chin. You're underrating Guzman's countering abilities, his defense, and his chin.. don't say you're not, you are. Guzman will have no trouble countering Pac and attacking him when he's out of position because of his balance issues. He's amazingly accurate with both hands and his punches come from angles that Pac has never seen before.

 

He's not proven to be better than Guzman. I scored both of his fights against JMM as losses (as did many others) and he has had a number of unimpressive performances in the past. His biggest win is against Barrera, a great win.. but Barrera isn't comparable to Guzman style-wise, so beating Barrera doesn't matter when talking about a Guzman matchup. I'm not even going to bring up the Sanchez fight and how they did comparitively, because that's a big thing to go into and Pac has changed since then. He still actually has a lot of his old flaws.. but yeah, I won't go into to that. Lets just say that Guzman at 122 would have absolutely destroyed Pac back then and it's not even arguable to say otherwise.

Now about the Jaendang thing. It's funny how people like you like to say things like "As if JMM really gave a **** about his defence against Jadaeng, where he was beating his ass until the stoppage". I can say the exact same thing about Guzman's fights against Barrios, Soto, etc. As if Guzman really gave a **** about his defense against Barrios, where he was dominating him until (what should have been) wide decision victory. It's clear that Guzman doesn't mind getting hit sometimes and doesn't try his best to avoid every shot. It doesn't bother him, it actually excites him when he fights and makes him feel more confident. The guy has an unbelievable chin and he's tough as hell, he could fight extremely defensively but he chooses not to simply because he has the skills and natural ability to be succesful while doing whatever he wants at the top level.

Defensively, Guzman "is not so good"? His defense is definitely "enough to hold out on a guy like Pac". And again, his movement would trouble Pac a lot more than you think. Pac would have huge, huge problems with it, more problems than the B+ level Soto.

It won't turn into an all out war, especially now that Guzman is trained by Floyd Sr. and is happier to box rather than go to war like he used to early in his career. It will be a war at times, but it won't be a negative thing for Guzman because he has the chin, reflexes, and more superior inside game to usually get the best of Pac during wild exchanges too.

Juan Diaz would be a tougher fight for Guzman than Pac. Pac is not physically large and for the last time, his one-dimensional style is exactly the kind of style that Guzman could toy with. The only rounds he'd lose are the rounds he'd give away.

 

I could talk about Guzman for days, but I think that's enough. There's no point of arguing with you guys because you aren't analyzing the matchup correctly and you're underrating Guzman. I'm making the ultimate career highlights Guzman video right now for youtube, about 6 minutes in length. Hopefully it will bring some attention to his greatness and make people want to see more of him. Hopefully he will stay in top condition and not become way too past-it in the next few years so he could get some great wins and become an ATG. Hopefully these ****ing fights come off, because he has been waiting for way too long.

Now to balance out all my Guzman praising, let me just say the one thing that I don't love about him, even though he's one of my favorite fighters. Although Guzman has been avoided for all of his career and been generally unlucky, he could have had more fans/attention if he went all out in his fights past 122 pounds. He has only been matched up against fighters with solid chins for the last few years (Arthur will be his first weak chinned opponent in a very long time), but he could have gotten some impressive stoppages on TV had he pushed for them in the second half of the fights. I love watching him toy around and outclass fighters, but I wish he would have gone all out in some of his fights at SFW and looked to finish his opponents off to look even greater.

But to end this in a positive way, I truly believe when Guzman gets a big fight, he will be extremely motivated and show up in the kind of form that we haven't ever seen from him before. Against someone like Pac, I think he would step his already A level game up another level and look unreal. Lets all hope we get to see him fight the best as soon as possible. If the Pac fight doesn't happen (I highly doubt it will happen), then lets all pray the possible Gamboa fight happens, because that would truly be something special.

 

...And I'm taking things seriously on here?:think

 

If Guzman-Pac doesn't happen and Pac is still in form in 1-1/2 to 2 years, then Gamboa will slaughter him with ease around that time because I believe that the big money behind Gamboa will make this come into the equation.

A lot of people are ready to see 1 dimensional Pacquaio "officially" get knocked off that #2 P4P pedastool.

I know I am in the minority, but I find Pacqauio very boring when he's not in there against a Marquez or Morales that wars with him. Fights against Solis, Sanchez, Barrera 2 and a few others were ****ing horrible to watch because he only offers speed, timing and power and has a limited offensive arsenal. I expect the David Diaz bout to be boring if it's not an early blowout, which may very well happen depending on how he carries his power.

 

:roll:

 

I still like JMM here actually. Employing an extremely efficient jab and move has frustrated Guzman before and would be used as the mantle for JMM to dictate the fight.

Their was even some evidence in the Soto fight where Guzman moved inside brazenly, ate Soto's Jab and left himself open but Soto didn't have half the movement, anticipation or accuracy JMM holds and never really threw combinations effectively and there's no way JMM is as tentative countering either.

Im surprised by the lack of support JMM has in this match up from reading this thread? I know Guzman is asthetically pleasing but JMM has serious technical strengths here that match and better Guzman!

I think Guzman would land the heavier blows but im still not sure if Guzman hurts JMM like Pac did which allows JMM to shake off the shots more often and continue controlling the round.

I like Guzman as a prospect but I honestly think he's missing the class form line here that JMM has.

 

I really think Pac is in for a horrible end to his career pretty soon. After he beats David Diaz, if Casamayor gets taken out by somebody already, who will he face? Campbell and Juan Diaz would destroy him. A third JMM match is his best option probably, because JMM will be even more faded by then and Pac might actually beat him legitimately for the first time. Guzman would own him. A fight against Hatton/DLH would be silly. Gamboa.. damn, unless Gamboa has some secret shaky chin, he'll be able to tear Pacquiao apart. Pac is on the decline now too and the more punishment he takes the worse he'll get.

Pac's definitely most exciting when he's matched with elite fighters like JMM/Morales. I love that fight with Sanchez though, but only because it's embarassing for Pac fans and it's pretty interesting. I never found him boring because I love watching fighters like him who are one-dimensional offensive machines with endless stamina, power/speed, and great heart/toughness.. not as much as I love watching Guzman or Barrera at their best, but it's still incredibly entertaining when watching live. He has an extremely rare fighting spirit and it's amazing what he has achieved despite being so limited. You could tell he loves fighting too, similar to the way Tito did.