1. Joe from the second Foreman fight (Disadvantaged) against Lyle from the greatest brawl in boxing. 2. Prime vs Prime Ronnie is certainly an overrated fighter but what he achieved with his little boxing experience was eye opening he went life and death with a ring rusted Foreman still impressive he dropped Foreman a few times (briefly) and didn't surrender till the very end even while people screamed "stop" I feel as though Joe would most likely maul Lyle certainly isn't impossible for Joe to lose I'd like everyone's opinion on this grand fight that would've been a jewel but never materialized.
I think so too, even though in some ways Lyle was a good foil for Joe. When I think prime Joe I think of the FOTC and I still think Joe could have been easily competitive with any heavyweight in history that day, including George Foreman. Frazier was one of those fighters who did best when he was super pissed off, so I think that should be a codicil. If Lyle pisses Joe off enough I think the former goes bye bye in seven at the latest. If it's regular (pre Ali) Joe I give Lyle eleven (and a quite possible knockdown of Joe during that time). I honestly believe that about the p'd off factor...it kept him more than competitive against the greatest heavyweight of all time, even after the FOTC when by all rights Frazier was a different (and altogether significantly lesser) fighter. I honestly think FOTC (as in super aggravated) Joe would have doggedly outpointed Foreman, utilizing his thereafter missing "Smokin'" to avoid and confuse George while he came in. I mean, I realize Ali was most certainly not the puncher Foreman was, however he basically beat the crud out of Frazier in some of the early rounds of the FOTC and Joe sucked it up and kept coming (smokin'). Joe was also underrated as a clincher, he knew how to tie people up, and George would have gotten very angry and aggravated after awhile (see Zaire as to what happens to such a George). I'd be surprised to hear much contention that Joe was a different fighter (minus the Ali bouts) after FOTC; the only time he ever effectively smoked thereafter was against Muhammad. So the 2nd Foreman Frazier is screwed, Lyle catches him with one of his weird, crushing-but-kinda-amateurish-in-execution shots in the first three rounds, floors him twice, and the ref stops the fight because Joe's eyes are rolling up in his head.
I remember Ali sent a very green Lyle up to Fraziers camp to spar after he worked with Ali. Fraziers people wouldn't let Lyle in the ring with Joe because as stated he was green and Joe was vicious with sparring partners the same way Dempsey befor and Tyson after. I dont know what to make of Frazier of the 2nd Foreman fight. He was past it of course and fought a defensive fight with contact lenses in no less!!. Give me the Frazier that fought Bugner and I still have Joe. But the Foreman 2 Joe is a mystery to me.
I recall an article at the time saying something like "Joe's not smoking anymore"...Joe without smoking is not Joe the heavyweight champion. He did those two ridiculous mismatch defenses after the FOTC and stepped into the first fight with George already looking so different.... I can just picture the FOTC Frazier smoking against Foreman, probably getting dropped once or twice but starting to land that hook after four rounds while George gets angrier and angrier. And I must emphasize again, Joe aggravated was easily at his best, while Foreman just, to quote Frazier's commentary from Zaire, became a "very foolish fighter" and punched himself out. Though I rank George higher as an ATG, the George that fought Joe the first time wasn't fighting the FOTC Frazier, and in the second fight he was fighting some guy whom didn't even look like a contender, much less a still relatively young ATG.
Joe wears Lyle out, he could get stunned or even dropped against Ron but Lyle doesn't have what it takes to keep Joe down. Frazier by TKO round 9
Im going with a shocker .Lyle stops Frazier early and by early i mean around the 2 nd .Frazier come s out and gets tagged early .He's dropped with in seconds and really hurt .Joe's heart says get up and kill him but his body isn't obeying .He makes it to the bell but down again in The second .Lyle at this point is on fire and attacks Joe like mad .But the refs seen enough and calls it over Lyle Wins by RSC 2 ..
This. Prime for prime I’d definitely have to go with Frazier, but after the FOTC Frazier fell off bad and really let his conditioning go, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see Frazier take a loss against Lyle between 1973-1976.
First, Lyle decked Foreman twice, not a few times. Second, the knockdowns were serious, not brief episodes at all. In fact, another ref might have stopped the fight after the second one. Clancy didn't think that George was going to get up the second time.
Frazier and Lyle were on track to fight in early 1973, until the WBA threatened to strip Frazier if he didn't fight George Foreman. Lyle was showcased on the same card following Frazier's win over Ron Stander in 1972. Then Frazier traveled to Denver to watch Lyle stop Buster Mathis. Frazier said he was there to scout future opponents. But he was already well acquainted with Mathis. Had the WBA not forced the Foreman match, Frazier-Lyle likely would've been Frazier's first defense in 1973. As it was, Frazier signed to defend against Foreman and Lyle (now without a title fight) signed to face Quarry. Within a matter of weeks, both Frazier and Lyle had lost. I'd have favored Frazier over Lyle in 1973 (had the Foreman fight not happened). By 1976, who knows? Frazier took a frightful beating against Ali in Manila. But Lyle didn't fair so great in 1975/76, himself (winning only two of six fights - and in Shavers' bio he said Lyle got two minutes to recover between rounds after Shavers floored Lyle - meaning it could've easily been one out of six). I'd take Frazier in 1973 and 1976, likely by late-round TKO both times. Lyle seemed to fade in later rounds. Frazier, not so much.
Exactly. Never took a 10 count. Probably never would. Not too many guys would be able to stop Joe at or near his peak.
