Joe Frazier vs these 3 modern heavyweights

These slow, unskilled behemoths that are around today would not lay a glove on JF.

Usyk is awesome, no doubt, but I think Joe Frazier knocks him out. And yes, Fighters can study more these days, but they don't have the discipline to do so like the older guys & they do not fight high-level competition often enough to develop it anyway.

 

Over 11 years. Top shelf poster too.

 

My thoughts exactly. Prime Fury's a horrible style matchup, Dubois just isn't good enough and Zhang is actually kinda tailor made for Frazier that you could easily see him winning. Problem is Zhang hits so ****ing hard that he could take a million body shots but still mike legitimately spark Frazier out cold with one punch.

 

1. You realize skill isn't the only factor that goes into a fight right?

2. Joe's skill level isn't worth mentioning. He's one of the most one dimensional champions in all of heavyweight history. He, like 90% of heavyweight champions, relies on his overwhelming physical attributes to get W's. Joe is 15 rounds of hooks, forward pressure and crackhead head movement. His vaunted skillset begins and ends there and you're talking like he's Joe Louis lol.

Zhang can't send a fighter he's 70 pounds heavier than and 8 inches taller than to the shadow realm because of his smokin Joe "skills" lol.

 

How many one punch KO losses did Frazier have again??

Foreman teed off on him in two fights and couldn’t keep him down much longer than a second or two. I doubt anyone one shots Frazier if Forman couldn’t.

Fury doesn’t have the power or work rate to worry or keep Frazier from getting inside and going to work. Fury got out worked and dropped by a literal non boxer in Ngannou. Frazier would eventually get to and grind Fury down imo despite the size disparity. I’m not sold on Fury as some H2H beast whatsoever. His career was getting an aging great at the right time (in a God awful, boring fight) and beating a one trick, ridiculously crude hype job in Wilder (wins that are aging like milk recently), being extremely lucky not to be stopped by the bog ordinary Otto Wallin, beating some British level retreads and getting whupped by a middleweight x2 (Fury’s own description).

 

Interesting....
Dubios - Joe would pressure him too much and possibly break his spirit.
Fury - Joe would pressure him and hit him hard and often to the body, forcing him to work constantly, before whipping over a left hook to the bonce.
Zhang - I think causes most problems early, whatever the opinions he does have fast hands and excellent power. If Smoking Joe can stay safe (potentially on the inside..!) and tire him he could beat him too, but if he starts eating heavy punches - good night.

 

Combined they still aren't half the man Ali was, Frazier has a good time pulling them into deep water and hurting them

 

Foreman himself never one hit KO'd anyone even when he was windmilling punches from behind the back of his head and landing clean, hence why I say all the time his power is overrated. ATG power puncher yes, GOAT power puncher no.

Zhang however one hit KO'd Joe Joyce of all people, who himself has one of the best chins ever. Y'all need to stop using overall fighting ability and popularity to determine physical ability. Zhang having more one hit punching power than Foreman shouldn't be a controversial statement at all. He has one of the worst punch outputs in all of boxing history and yet he's knocked down every opponent ever he's faced for past several years even in his 40's.

And I really don't like when people do this. Play the silly game of using the literal worst moment of someone's career to explain why they'd lose a prime matchup. 2024, clearly not giving a **** no training camp Fury got dropped by Ngannou, therefore Prime 2015 Fury loses to Frazier. Huh?

and Fury isn't a H2H beast, but you don't need to be a H2H beast when you have. Just jab and uppercut the **** out of the crouching 5'11 Frazier from the outside, then either illegally sit on him when he gets on the inside or shove him away and reset, rinse and repeat. Fury has Ali's mobility advantage and jab over Frazier as well as Foreman's strength advantage over Frazier. I really really really think this is one of the worst possible matchups for him. Prime Fury also actually has one of the better gas tanks of all the modern heavyweights despite his weight.

Finally you're taking for granted the 10 inch height advantage, 12 inch reach advantage, 50lbs weight advantage. People say size doesn't matter as if it's a complete coincidence that we've not had a sub 6'0, 200lbs champion for the past 50+ years. People with Frazier's stature are quite literally, exponentially more common in the boxing talent pool than super heavyweights. If being a tiny swarmer was still viable then we'd see tiny swarmers.

 

Zhang ranks higher than Foreman, too? That's funny.

 

Fury isn’t a Ali/Foreman hybrid. He’s a flabby skinny legged, outside boxer with moderate power and overrated strength and mobility (Usyk walked him down and clinched with him without any problems whatsoever and Frazier is naturally thicker and solider than Usyk plus better at cutting distance than virtually anyone) .
Foreman one shot KOd Moorer, Rodriguez, and nearly killed Gerry Cooney with a walk in left uppercut. Genuine two fisted wrecking power.

As for using the worst moment in his career against Fury that’s an absolute cop out. He's the one who took the **** against Ngannou but even then the world heavyweight champion shouldn’t be getting floored and arguably beaten by a guy who doesn’t belong in a boxing ring with a serious fighter (as AJ so brutally demonstrated). Fury absolutely deserves all he gets for this and you can throw in him looking absolute trash vs Otto Wallin to see all of Fury’s shortcomings (fitness, defense, chin, lack of power etc) laid bare. Fury didn’t even look any good against a way past prime Wlad in his career high point.

 

Is that comment directed at me?

 

Fury isn't and doesn't need to be an Ali Foreman hybrid, to do what I described. He just needs to more mobile, have a better jab and be stronger than Frazier, which he is.

That and Frazier isn't thicker than Usyk ...like at all. Dude clearly has narrower shoulders than Usyk, AND is 4 inches shorter than him, and was also much fatter at 205lbs than Usyk was at the same weight. Besides Usyk usually pivoted out of the clinch, it's not like he out muscled Fury

But again, why are you bringing up Usyk? That wasn't peak Fury. God damn I don't like Fury at all as a person or as a fighter but people give him such little respect it's ridiculous. Tyson Fury is the most undisciplined and thus inconsistent champion in all of heavyweight history, imo. Whilst this is obviously **** for his career, acting like this isn't true, and therefore extrapolating that the true peak of Fury's ability actually puts him at Otto Wallin level is just so silly lol. And I say this as someone who thinks Fury should have LOST Vs Wallin mind you, cuz there's no ****in way that fight doesn't get stopped if it's the other way around.

I think Fury should have lost to Wallin and yet I'm cognizant of the fact that fight isn't an accurate representation of him at his best

 

Zhang landed a crap ton of shots and needed two fights to drop Joyce

 

Seriously? None of them rank with Joe Frazier.

 

All good mate. I respect your objectivity. Frazier was a squat build with tree trunk legs ( definitely thicker there than Usyk). Different physiology to Oleksander and I’ve always admired Frazier’s punch technique and commitment especially to the body which I see as a factor in this fantasy match up.

I actually liked Fury at one point but overall his career disappointed me sadly. I respect and can see your perspective also but disagree with it. It’s all good though. It’s all just our opinions at the end of the day.