Very interesting article! I wonder what the reaction was to it in the 60's. I'm guessing it went largely unnoticed, mostly because no-one could see it for themselves, and because people want to maintain their images of former legends. Johnson is the only heavyweight who can be seen throwing a jab, but .. how do i say, it's almost like he throws it accidentally. He never tries to control a fight with the jab. The same goes for the left hook. Every now and then you see one, but you'd almost think like they're improvising punches at random, without applying it to a gameplan. Part of that may be to the loooong, long bouts (comments on pace spot on) and part because they came from the bareknuckle era and they spent more than half the time wrestling in the clinches.
i dont think the "experts" in the 1960s would want to listen to this even though alot of it is true. Great article old fogey I will say however that the fighters before 1930s can look more awkward then they were due to poor film speed. One cannot entirely judge those fighters on the film available
I'm not going to try and tell you that Jeanette and Mcvey were at their absolute peaks,but Mcvey was only a month short of 20, so while still technically a teenager he was not some 17/ 18 year old. Jeanette was short of his very best but when he fought Johnson in 1906 he was 27 years old and had had 21 fights,stopping Langford in his previous match,so he wasn't some callow youth.I agree Jeff and Fitz were way over the hill and uncharacteristically Johnson claimed no credit for his ko of Fitz .By the same token, the same could be said for Johnson when after 26rds Willard kod him when Johnson was 37. Cyberzone says this about some of Johnson's victims. Denver Ed Smith= strong ,shifty with a stiff punch. Sam Mcvey= big ,powerful. Jim Johnson = tall strong. Joe Jeanete= dangerous inside puncher. Klondike = strong muscular fighter ,who could hit hard. Joe Choynsky = hit hard with each fist. Joe Butler= box or punch. Ive only concentrated on their power because it is Johnson's durability that is in question. We also have Frank Moran and his right hand Mary Ann. A young Sam Langford, not yet at his prime but a veteran of 56 fights when he met Johnson. Willard had a dangerous right hand but it took him 26 rds to get Johnson out of there, who was possibly exhausted at that point. I think Johnson fought his share of punchers in those 64 fights he went without being kod. In the two ko losses before he reached his prime Johnson was some 25 / 30 lbs lighter than the 208 lbs champion he would become.It works both ways doesn't it?
Good to hear from you OLD FOGEY. Did you ever read Jack Johnson vs. Jim " battling " Johnson? News reads suggest Jim was ahead. Jack was not handling him easy. What news report says this? The reports I read said Jim was the better, making the fight, and hurt Jack Johnson. When Jack quit, the judges did not know what to do. One gave the fight to Jim Johnson, the other two called it a bogus draw. The decision smelled so bad France wanted to strip Johnson of his title and give it to the winner of Langford vs Jeanette! In addition since Jack quit in a 20 round bout according to the well re-searched Cyber Boxing Zone, Jim should have won via TKO. Read this news read below, then comment if you think Jack Johnson won the fight. http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9806E1D6103FE633A25753C2A9649D946296D6CF I agree with all of your points on the second post, including Burns, who was ill and at 168 pounds being his best filmed performance.
A TEENAGER. Sam McVey would get a lot better... Jeanatte was FAR from his best. He had a losing record when he fought Johnson, and a .500 record at when they last meet.. When Jeanette was at his peak, he was much better than a .500 fighter. And they are talking about the fighters at thier best, not when they were teenagers, 156 pounds and fighting at heavyweight, or .500 fighters! By the way the same web site will also tell you that Denver Ed Smith could not take a punch.
If you took the trouble to read my post ,you will see that I concentrated on their power,not other abilities. Using the words teenagers implies more than one.Jeanettte was 27,and had just kod Langford. Langford was 156 lbs ,but Johnson was 185,so BOTH men were over 20 lbs below their optimum weight, and Langford had more fights under his belt. I never suggested that Langford was prime ,but neither was Johnson.
You should focus on experience too. Sam had next to none at heavyweight. McVey had some, but he was a teenager. Jeanette have very little experience, and a losing or .500 record. Face facts Mcvey, Johnson took advantage of the very light ( Langford ), Green/ in-expediences ( Jeanette ) and very young ( the teen aged McVey ) Yet in the entire series of 10+ fights, Johnson scored but one stoppage win and it was in round 20 when the teen aged McVey was gassed. Focusing on a statement that reflects on a fighters prime prowess is completely out of context for Johnson in the fights with McVey, Jeanette and Langford. Finally, there is a huge difference between 156 and 185, than 176 and 205. Jr middle weight seldom beat cruiser weights. There is a much greater chance for a light heavyweight beating a small heavyweight.
Ive never thought of Johnson as a ko artist the fact that he only stopped one of them does not surpise me at all. To be honest my post was intended to continue from my thread about Johnson's chin,I inadvertedly posted it in the Louis Johnson section , thats why I concentrated on the power of Johnson's opponents,after seeing Old Fogey's post I though mine could sit there without being out of place. Langford had 56 fights when he met Johnson experience is experience whatever division you are in.Johnson had less fights than Langford when they met .