Joe Louis vs Jack Johnson

I disagree with pretty much everything you've written including the ellipses. But it's your opinion.

 

Which part do you disagree with.. You thnk it's worse to be a little past your best but still have the best trainers in the world along with the best support in the world plus seasoned and experienced.. that is worse than being a part time fighter.. struggling to eat.. not proper trainers and no support system really to speak of.. as well as going through all that being inexperienced fighter.. Really? You disagree one is worse than the other?

 

Here is the problem.

You either factor in the context of the fight, or you dont.

You can't alow for context A, but not alow for context B.

If you are not making any alowance for Louis being past it when he met Marciano, they you are prety much saying "we lookat the result and ignore the context".

 

So, Johnson, as a lightheavy, had a good victory over the equivalent of a light middle. How again does this reflect on heavyweight boxing?

A massively undersized, single shot trap and brawler. I can't see Burns lasting more than a minute or two against most modern champions.

So, how much credit would we give Louis for beating Ceferino Garcia?

 

I like Louis here, but think he might be down on points early in the fight.

 

I disagree that's it better to be past your prime than it is to be young; I disagree that Louis was only 'slightly' past his prime for the fights in question; I disagree with the contention that Walcott was 'starving' during the time frame in question.

 

So you disagree with pretty much everything I've written.. when in fact.. you don't disagree with most.. just some. There are various parts of my post that you didn't highlight as disagreeing with because they are facts.. i.e. Louis had access to the best trainers and backing in the world.. he was a seasoned and experienced.. and also about Walcott.. you don't like the starving part.. but agree he didn't have proper backing and training and was a part time fighter.

Further, the reason why I think Walcott is not given enough credit and why I think he's been given more as of late is because people take the above facts into consideration. You can't claim Louis was past his best for the Walcott fight.. when Walcott was OLDER than Louis. This whole nonsense of ohhh Walcott was better when he got older is hogwash and goes against human nature. There is NO way Walcott was as fast.. nor had the reflexes or timing one has when they are in their physical prime. So he was a part time fighter.. no proper training or backing during his physical prime. Then we he had the proper training and backing he was already past his physical best and STILL look at all he accomplished. SO there is no way you can look to Louis being past his best as an excuse when Walcott was also past his best. Nice try though.

 

The point is... When Johnson was prime.. He beat the best he fought.. the ATG of that day and did so easily... I'm referring to McVea... Joe J... Langford.. Martin... Burns... Ketchell.. Sandy.. Sharkey He beat them all easily. We can't say the same for Louis when he faced the best of the best.

 

It would take some boy to lick Johnson. Some boy indeed.

 

Blackburn has straight out said Johnson would beat Louis.

 

I disagree with pretty much everything I just didn't feel the need to elucidate on a point by point basis. Louis trainers were great but he was backed by mobsters, more to the point black mobsters which brings up the issue that Louis, despite being the heavyweight champion of the world was a black man in a racist country. I would hesitate to call his backers 'the best' simply because they weren't allowed to be.

The second part is nonsensical and disproved across many sports by countless examples including boxing. If you want me to I can give you example after example (Hopkins, Moore, etc.) but at this point I think you're fitting the argument to your agenda.

Also ellipses have three dots.

 

You're hilarious Red... Tell me something.. you can give examples of those people being in their PHYSICAL prime later in their career? That is totally and completely false. Maintaining excellence or increasing your skill and experience DOESN'T mean you are more physically prime. I can on God's Green earth figure out how facts such as these allude you. You're reflexes.. timing.. speed.. stamina.. recovery time.. all go down as you age. The people you listed are exceptions to that.. they just might not have been as severe as others. Are you actually claiming Hopkins and Moore were more physically prime at 40 then they were at 26? If you're then I don't see a need to continue any conversation with you.. pretty much on any level. That level of stupidity would be at a level I don't with to engage in.

Further, let's suppose they were more physically prime (which is not possible) but let's say you're right. Those would be EXCEPTIONS to the rule.. not the rule Did you just say you can list numerous examples across all sports? Do you know how silly that sounds when I can list for you.... 1000 examples to your every one that prove my point? I see you like to base your arguments on what is possible... I go with what is probable. It's probable that Joe Walcott was not in his physical prime when he won the title and fought Louis. There is no argument at all that this is likely the case. So.. you're basically going against physiology and human nature and decide to go with yeah.. Walcott was the exception to the rule.. Hilarious. Which is irrelevant anyways... since Walcott was OLDER than Joe when they fought. So any argument about Joe benig past his prime means jack diddly when Walcott was also past his physical best.

Another point you failed to address is.. When Walcott WAS in his physical prime.. he wasn't a full time fighter and had no proper backing or training. We can only imagine what he could've done when he was in his actual physical prime. We know how good he was when he was past it.. imagine what he could've done with proper training.. backing and dedication full time while at his physical peak...