Joe Louis vs. Vitali Klitschko

Your making the mistake that Boxing evolves like the 100m or any athletics .. It doesnt, Boxing is the only sport that doesnt 'evolve' .. There are different training techniques and supplements but Boxing does not evolve like every other sport .... Boxing is about 2 men fighting in a ring, its a unique sport .. In 200 years if there is still boxing it wont have evolved ..... Its impossible to think that Boxing evolves which is why its so easy to pick Louis over Vitali ..

 

Diffrent training techniques sounds like evolving to me...

 

Walcott hadn't been stopped in 7 or 8 years when Louis turned the trick and wasn't stopped for another 4 years after that, and even then by the great Marciano with Walcott near 40.

That should hopefully give you a bit more light on the subject.

 

Yes but you can be a **** athlete with **** training techniques and still be a better boxer than a superior athlete.

Athletic enhancments of the type that cut the 100m record add verry little to boxing.

 

I would expect Walcott to not get stopped much from those stretch of fights. He became champion during that period.

 

I clearly didn't start the nonsense.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIeGcSS_Kog&feature=related[/ame]

Check the last 2 minutes of round 6 (5:00 mins in or so). Mute the volume for best viewing if you like. The tide is clearly turning. Vitali was reeling and holding and suffocating Lewis. Watch him wobble back at the end of round 6. I love Vitali's bum-rush in the last 20 seconds. Hilarious. This is an old and out of shape Louis too.

 

tickboy..??..?? i don't believe ... atsch:good:hi:

 

your the secondary owner of your own ***** :smh

 

But an activity like sprinting is almost purely about athletics. Boxing is about skill and character first and foremost.
Being a good athlete obviously plays a role in boxing, but boxing is littered with examples where an inferior athlete beat a superior one.

In a sport like sprinting, if you are slower than someone else, you will lose to that person in a sprint every single time.
Boxing is a far more intricate and complex sport that allows the physically inferior athlete, provided he has the skill, to overcome that disadvantage.

Where boxing has advanced is in an area like nutrition, and in some training methods.

If boxing was a sport that continually evolved and the boxers continually got better than their predecessors, then we could look at Vitali as the ultimate evolution of the heavyweight to date.
In theory, he should be able to beat every heavyweight that came before, because he's the new breed of athlete.
Some subscribe to the view that newer = better...I don't personally.

The skills and styles fighters are using now were being employed by fighters 20, 40, 60 years ago as well.

 

If you watch the film, you will see Sanders used his hands to shove Vitali down. It was not a knock down at all. Sanders did land a power left flush to the side of vitali's head, when he had plenty of stamina left in round one. Vitali took it well and recovered completely in the next round.

 

Extremely close is not a good desorption of the 1st Louis vs. Walcott fight. I think you did not see as much as I have, or simply never scored what you have seen in a round by round basis.

How much of the first Godoy fight have you seen? In fact how many people do you correspond with that have seen all 15 rounds, and scored them? I may be the only one. Perhaps this is why you are surprised. I score fights just fine, and even if I give Louis a round or two could have gone either way, he loses the fight.

 

I respect JohnThomas as a poster who has the ability to independently view the information without letting bias get in his way.

Thanks for conceding the first Walcott fight. By chance have you seen the 2nd Walcott vs. Louis fight? If you have, Walcott was clearly ahead. For some reason Walcott show boats late in the fight, then gets caught.

He was easily out boxing Louis.

I would not compare Walcott stylistically to Vitali, but I would compare Schmeling to Vitali, and its clear Schmeling easily out boxed and landed on Joe Louis.

I would somewhat compare Vitali to Farr, who's straight up style and jab scored repeatedly on Louis. In fact Farr once stunned Louis, and he was not a puncher, and stood toe to toe with Louis often during that fight.

Can you show me 1 fight where Louis was outboxing ( Omit an early KO ) anyone with what we would consider quality boxing skills? I have seen ever Joe Louis film, With he exception of Uzcudun. The quality boxers on film that Louis fought, men who moved, had defense and a jab were Schmeling, Walcott, Chalres, Pastor, Conn, and Farr clearly expose Louis methodical and slow feet, low stick your face forward guard, and lack of the ability to hit a moving target.

 

Not even close. Baer and Carnera were poor on defense. They lose many rounds to smaller guys, and lost many decisions. They lack Vitali judgment of distance, punch anticipation, head movement, foot speed,
countering skills, and intercepting punches when the other way is tying to get inside. In addition Vitali has the ability to throw punches from angles while he is moving.

Which film shows Baer or Carnera showing good defense. This I must see...becuase I think you are mistaken. Please tell me the fight and the rounds. I will check.

Vitali makes his man miss plenty in his fights. Have you watched them. Count the complete misses then compare them with a famous fighter known for defense and the results will surprise you. Again, there are many forms of defense. They are head movement, using lateral movement and footwork, having great punch anticipation / the ability to read body language, throwing a defensive jab or countering, glove blocking, and clinching. Vitali does all of the above better than Max Baer or Carnera.

Louis did not fight any skilled super heavyweights. Men who have size reach, a jab, and accuracy, combined with footwork and defense. The large heavies that Louis fought like Simon, Bear, and Carnera were there to be hit.

Jabs, and a some what straight up European stance. By the way Farr, who was not a big hitter stunned Louis.

 

Others here have said its a robbery. As a foot note even SuzieQ thinks Walcott won the first fight. A fair score card for the first Louis vs. Walcott fight is 8 or 9 rounds for Walcott. In addition Walcott has TWO 10-8 rounds where he scored knockdowns in rounds 1 and 4.

I urge you to score this one yourself, and either PM me your round by round score card or post it here.

As for the first godoy fight, who have you seen here who has viewed all 15 rounds?