Johnson Willard: Dive or KO

Tyson got up, Johnson needed help getting to his feet. The footage shows it. I think Jack got caught with a good over head right. Johnson had a great round 17 not a while back.

 

I don't know Janitor??? patsch:huh I'm just not convinced - I'm kind of with this guy here - I just think Johnson really didn't look hurt to me - I think he just wanted out

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7YwStCDitI&feature=related[/ame]

 

Firecat something.atsch
Your carriage awaits!

 

Johnson was in front at the time of the stoppage.
Willard came on after the 20th rd and ,started to land solidly on the rapidly tiring Johnson.
Personally,I think the 37 year old Johnson fought the fight of his life, was gradually worn down and then kod by a terrific overhand right.
You would make a case that it was even - steven of course,or, even that Willard was in front .
And you think I make a ****** out of myself.atsch

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Zoom in on the rolls of fat around Johnson's hips and arse.

 

It sure looked like a good punch.

Was the proper time, to take a count.
How much more could the old fella take.

 

uote=Il Duce;8936722]It sure looked like a good punch.

Was the proper time, to take a count.
How much more could the old fella take.[/quote]

He put up a better show at 37 .
Than Jeffries did against him at 34.
That is a fact.

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He put up a better show at 37 .
Than Jeffries did against him at 34.
That is a fact.

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That is a fact - but then Jeffries was never the fighter Johnson was at any stage and Jeff had been out 5 years or whatever and had been retired and grossly out of shape - and Jeff was fighting a prime J Johnson (one of the top 4 heavyweights in history in my opinion) where as Johnson was just facing Jess Willard (probably lower half of top 30 in history heavyweight champs wise) - the Johnson of the Jeffries fight would've dropped n stopped the Big Jess Willard of Havana quicker and easier than he did Old Jeff

 

Facts are facts, but when they shed the light of the truth on a legend, they tend to die hard. Could you imagine if Wlad was KO'd by say a 175 pound Pascal? The Internet chin police would be on his case for decades.

Johnson did not fight any prime or near prime top level opponents who could hit in his title run, aside from Willard. Fighters who like to clinch a lot, play defense, and are careful not to open up often adopt this type of style out of necessity to cover up a suspect chin.

I'm a Wlad fan, and he absoultely has a suspect chin vs puncher. But are three TKO losses, that bad in 50+ fights at heavy? Not really. Sanders and Brewster hit a ton. Far harder than Ketchel.

 

Johnson to his cornerman the round before he got knocked out:


"Go get my wife, and please tell her to leave. Tell her im feeling tired"



Thats why I say it's just like Ali Forman. The exhaustion brought on the inevitable.



And I agree that Willards age and Johnsons lack of conditioning were just lesser factors compared to Willard just being Willard.


A little past halfway through the fight you can see Willard start to smile. It's because in the clinches he knows Johnson's draining, and while he was in just as good shape as he was when the fight started. He probably could have done that whole fight.


Willard = criminally underrated.

You think theres more than a handful other boxers out there who would have made it to the 4th round against Dempsey on that day? FOUR rounds of Dempsey onsluaght, blood covering the majority of his face, all the way down to his legs. I mean what the hell is that...

 

Rez,you hit on something.What 187 pound Dempsey did in Reno,July 4,1919,was a piece of savage destruction,never seen before or since. It is a watershed in boxing history. Never has such destruction of a bigger man been done, than what Dempsey did that blazing hot afternoon.
For all intents and purposes Dempsey ,who dropped the giant Willard 7 times in the first round,should have been credited with a first round kayo. Jack was
a killer at that time in his career.Tis a shame we today, only see this prime Dempsey in this film in not proper speed,with this hand cranked camera..
I have said this before,this Dempsey was a bigger ,stronger version of the
young lightweight Roberto Duran of later times. To slaughter a giant iron
chinned Willard [albeit older],in the first round,was a great feat of punching
ferociousness, never seen before or since. Willard whatever his shortcomings
was never on the floor before,until the Manassa Mauler Massacre...:good

 

I agree. If he had been looking to take a dive, he'd have done it sooner than round 26.

 

I think the same thing. :deal

 

That was always what Big Jess himself said when asked about the dive he said something along the lines of "well if he took a dive, I wish he would have done it sooner...it was damn hot out their"

 

I could see that if he had gotten hit with a glancing blow..but that was a long mean vicious right hand that caught him right on the chin....

he wouldnt "let" himself get hit with a punch like that.....and why wouldnt that kind of punch put him down? Willard actually killed a fighter, did he not?

 

By 1915 and on the run from the U.S. law, Jack Johnson was in woeful shape at age 37 down in Cuba when he defended against Jesse Willard... But he still was cagey and savvy enough to keep the limited Jesse Willard at bay and make a good show of it for almost 27 friggin' rds...

I don't buy most of Johnson's aftermath bull**** that he was waiting on a signal and some money to be delivered at ringside...

If a dude is gonna throw a fight, he can do it within 15 rds and make it all look good... Me thinks Ol' Johnson simply wore down and got stopped by a younger and fresher man who could punch...

MR.BILL:bbb