jose "mantequilla" napoles

Flea Man · Sep 7, 2010

itrymariti said: ↑

There's walking through, but there's also blocking/slipping and countering, there's using footwork/head movement to avoid an outfight altogether and get into close-range fighting. "Being first" is just one small aspect of boxing, and being fast is just one small aspect of being first.

Boxing would be a very dull and predictable sport (almost like a convoluted athletics contest) if what you're saying held.

Like what? Judgement of distance, timing, footwork etc.? You're probably the only one who thinks Mayweather has an advantage there.

Again, you crudely reduce beating somebody to the punch to being fast. (The reason I laughed was because Judah is not exactly somebody who spends his time on the front foot "being first".)

"Wasn't that good" - "Taylor lacked stamina" - exactly my point. There are multifarious reasons for a fighter out-timing another. Accuracy, footwork/ability to get into position to throw, output/work-rate/stamina - all those things count as well as speed.

Go and look down any amateur gym and there will be kids in there as fast or even faster than the top guys in the sport. There's a reason why they're not titleists.

Those are fine examples, especially Chavez, who routinely "was first" against faster (as well as taller, rangier etc.) opponents. There are many others.

So you concede that Mayweather isn't the better technician now?

And Mayweather is not more skilled in any aspect of his game. Like I said, a flat-footed pot-shot-and-grab artist at the weight.

You think the jabs at say 3:10 here are faster than the ones earlier?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55czSCHTQfU

Aside from that, Napoles is a much more skilled jabber than DLH in other respects, being able to counter with the jab, anticipate an opponent's jab and land his own while leaning away for protection, throw it from a variety of angles rather than just "pointing" it out in a straight line repetitively, having better footwork and extension on the jab which increases his range, etc. And, like I said, that's one tiny fragment of Napoles' game, used more to probe for weaknesses, invite an exchange or counters etc. than as a basis for his style (unlike DLH, who was able to make the whole fight competitive just with his against Floyd).

"Reactions, reactions" - Cokes was hardly a sluggard himself, and was able to get in a counter right near enough as quickly as I've ever seen Mayweather do at 6:37, 8:07, 8:42, for example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu2L0NxRfHA

As for defence - Cokes was far and away the better defensive technician, if that means anything. Apart from that, the footage isn't exactly conclusive. If there is an advantage for Mayweather, I'd speculate that what Cokes may lack in evasiveness he gains on offence.
Again, a safety-first style often misleads.

Absolutely. One of Napoles' biggest strengths. Take the video I posted earlier. At 0:51, 1:01 and 1:23 (particularly), 1:33. Napoles avoids deadly quick straight right hand counters or leads over the jab or over any combination with unbelievable ease. It played into his style - trying to counter his jab just provided an opportunity for him to counter the counter in turn and work his combinations. In fact, he does this throughout the fight, until Cokes, like pretty much every opponent, abandons all hope of actually landing anything on the counter around the half-way. The same would happen to Mayweather, I suspect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z33BKWkt89Y

Well, that is his style.

Not really - Castillo's strategy was hardly a clinic on smooth boxing finesse, but basically an attempt at smothering and mugging Mayweather up close.
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Fantastic stylistic analysis here mate.

itrymariti · Sep 7, 2010

Flea Man said: ↑

Fantastic stylistic analysis here mate.
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Cheers Flea.

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jose "mantequilla" napoles

Flea Man มวยสากล

itrymariti Cañas! Full Member