Just how good of a boxer was James Toney?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Nov 4, 2020.

  1. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    McGrain is still awaiting his reply too.
     
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  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think he's ducked about three of mine.
     
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  3. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Just out of curiosity, does anybody know of any other posters who make sister threads if they're not getting the responses that they'd hoped for?

    I've been here for almost 9 years yet I've never seen that before.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020 at 7:02 AM
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  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Aye, it has happened, but nobody this pathological - you'll see guys start polls after falling out with another guy in a thread for three or four days now and again.
     
  5. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Me and @The Undefeated Lachbuster have created polls on here to settle disputes. Results are pretty 50/50.
     
  6. Bulldog24

    Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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  7. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    Toney was not full grown when he competed in Middleweight, he was rather a natural light-heavyweight and competed for 5 years in the division, so he had most likely enough time to accustom there with mediocre opposition, to slowly establish and not that he prompt fought someone of the world peak there as Jones did with Ruiz, he always was clearly over the lower limit (his nemesis just weighted 87Kg there)
    As Toney was in Middle- and Super-Middleweight mainly drained, he clearly was a bully as Broner and Spencer.

    This is like to argue Muhammed Alk was a exceptional light-heavyweight as he competed as amateur there or that Pacquaio is a natural flyweight still. He didn't look fat in Cruiserweight or like Ruiz Jr./ Butterbean, this was rather in Heavyweight from 2006 onwards.
     
  8. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He was 25 when he moved up to SMW to fight Barkley.

    He could have been a career SMW with more discipline.

    Ruiz and Butterbean are/were obese.
     
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  9. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    He doped himself to upper weight-classes, but many boxer grow until 30. Toney was not obese in Cruiserweight. His body had the size for several years and he was used to fight in that weight-class when he fought for the IBF world title. It was nit that he just jumped from Middleweight to Cruiser- or Heavyweight to challenge an elite guy, like you acted, he had a lot of weak opponents and trailforses until this was finalized, it's like you would name Guilllermo Jones a welterweight, but who achied more than him in Cruiserweight or in general all above Super-Middleweight.
     
  10. Pepsi Dioxide

    Pepsi Dioxide New Member Full Member

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    If you have watched James Toney box, you know was a very good boxer with diet discipline issues. I was going to say more but i feel this sums him up rather nicely.
     
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  11. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Boxers grow until they’re 30?

    What?

    He was ill disciplined.

    He struggled to make weight against Griffin when he was 27.

    He was thick set, but he never had a huge frame.

    He definitely could have been a career SMW-LHW.

    LHW should have been his best weight class. But he just passed through it.

    I never said that he was obese at CW. But he didn’t have a low percentage of body fat like Roy did against Ruiz.

    I’ve never heard of anyone calling him a weight bully before.

    Anyway, we’re going off track.

    Again, my original point was that he was an exceptional fighter. He was flawed, but still exceptional. And he didn’t just do well at the higher weights because of PEDS, it was also due to his great ring craft.

    I’ve really nothing else to say on the matter.

    My original post was to highlight where Mendoza had shown bias.
     
  12. Minotauro

    Minotauro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That GGG vs Toney thread really hurt some ppl's feelings lol. Toney was a serious talent according to Roach he's the most talented fighter he ever trained.
     
  13. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    Against Griffin was at Light-Heavyweight, so he was possible a natural cruiserweight by the time. Because of his undiscipline he helped himself out with steroits and muscled himself up. These hormones let him grow at advantaged age, you see it on his head what got a lot bigger, in opposite to other boxer which moved up, and grew to a large water-head unpropotional to his body, that he almost looks like Herman Munster now. His growing breast comes from anabolica too.

    In the Heavyweight grow a lot of boxers in their thirties, therefore they can keep their peak till 40 partly. Often starts it just with 30, when it is in lower divisions narrowly over and begins 5 or 6 years earlier.
     
  14. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    yawn
     
  15. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Herman Munster?

    Ha!

    That made me laugh out loud.

    Yes, due to his undiscipline, it was easier for him to bulk up and move up to the higher weights.

    Adding mass and having a physique with a higher percentage of body fat, is easier than staying trim with a lower percentage of body fat.

    It was easier for him to fight at CW and HW than what it was for him to remain at LHW. Because he got worse as he aged. He was struggling on the scales against Griffin when he was only in his late 20's.

    It was lazy of him to move up to CW, but he could do it because he had the skills to compete with the best guys there.

    When you say that HW's grow in their 30's, you mean that they add mass or change their compositions. The human body obviously doesn't continue to grow at that age.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020 at 3:09 AM