Just spent 2 hours watching Ray Robinson and...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o7A3rMN6Co&feature=related[/ame]


The only difference being, he would be doing that dance when he wakes up. And for 45 minutes.

 

It's not debateable at all. Pac and May are NOT all time WWs. Neither guy has enough straps at that weight or an impressive/lengthy reign full of dangerous contenders at their primes. Pretty much every guy they've beaten at that weight has been beaten or exposed against another fighter, out of their OWN prime weight, or out of their prime.... **** Luis Rodriguez has a better resume than Pac or May.

Pacquiao has a great featherweight resume. Floyd is a shoe in for #1 or #2 at 130. NEITHER guy is an ATG WW, this division is way too deep for that. Guys like Robinson, Leonard, Hearns, Walker, Walcott, Napoles, Gavilan, Griffith, "Kid" Lewis, Rodriguez, and others stand higher.

 

really?

i dont think it's that far apart if apart at all

not everything the guy did is that vastly better than these two.

 

Yes, undoubtedly neither in terms of a combination of criteria are top 15/16/17 welterweights. I haven't thought hard enough to come up with a list myself so I don't know where they'd place. It depends whether you extend your ATG welterweights to something like 20/25 names or whatever.

 

Yes.

 

Mayweather has better upperbody movement, defense, and glove blocking overall but apart from that SRR is better than both guys in every respect. Especially Pacquiao who has a boxer-punching style of his own- SRR's is just better. His style is a combination of the accurate/deadly combinations of Louis and the footwork/slickness of a guy like Kid Chocolate.... It's very very rare to see any guy with the combination of mobility speed and power that SRR had, only a couple fighters in history have that, Jones, Langford, Tyson, Dempsey, McGovern, etc. He could box when he needed to. He could certainly outpunch anyone. There aren't a lot of fighters with as many "options" as Robinson had.

I'm not even a SRR fan really, I just acknowledge his greatness. I don't even think he's a shoe-in for #1 GOAT P4P nonsense, as I think a few others are just as deserving of that claim(Armstrong, Gans, Greb, Langford) but to not see what makes him at least a contender is dumb

I don't feel the need to go past top 10 but i can still think of Welters who are more deserving up to at least the 15-20 range. *shrug*

 

Where do you think he generated the power from to knock out iron-chinned Gene Fullmer with a single left-hook while moving backwards? The guy had an uncanny ability to move around the ranges yet always have his feet planted enough to deliver big power on any punch. His balance was outstanding.

 

Word. A lot of people think footwork is just speed and how well you can maintain a circle(I wonder whose fault that is, Ali?) and ignore the stuff that is just as important like using your legs and hips to drive punches properly. A lot of people call Louis slow on his feet but you'll notice that his footwork is really subtle, he steps back to draw guys in and then NAILS them with a proper counter with his feet planted, and by not moving around so much, he can maintain KO power throughout a fight.

 

Good post.

 

call it what you will

far far far better than these two...im not buyin.

Floyd will never have that type of power but is always in position to counter and strike including off the back foot...now will he KO a person with ONE PUNCH probaly not but no way does that make his foot work that less inferior...nor does Pac's.....im just not buyin.

 

Using the same approach to judge SRR, i, how would you appraise Jones if he retired after beating Ruiz?

 

Actually, he did have much more dynamic footwork back in the day, and he got some pretty impressive one-punch KO's/KD's. He just doesn't put leverage in his punches anymore. I personally don't think he can move around the same way at welter.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bC6me0twjw[/ame]

Remember that floyd?


Pacquiao boxes on his toes a lot, maybe too much. It gives him a speed advantage and he scores a lot of points but he's not doing the damage he could. When he sets his feet and throws a punch he can be devastating like that hook that murdered Hatton and the uppercut counters that he dropped Cotto with. Khan has the same "problem".

 

maybe....im not knocking anyone's skill.....all im saying is that yes SRR footwork was excellent....but so is Floyd's and Pac's....if you want to say SRR's is better that's fine but to say its far far far better...nah....im not buyin.....i think the three are a lot closer than that in that regard.

 

Yep and it happens to be that he was a huge admirer of both, especially Kid Chocolate.

 

you were talking about the mayweather defense as if SR was anywere near as great as Jr or as if he had great defense im just pointing out to you that thats something that SR developed for Jr after SRL and Pernell Whitaker so Jr would have a better chance against offensive fighters

There were no damn Mayweather defensce until Jr