Kessler could become a better fighter than Calzaghe

pipe wrenched · May 25, 2008

By the way, the debate between TFFP and Pugilistic Power has been one of the most enjoyable debates I've read on here in a long time. Kudos to both you gentlemen. It is the type of stuff that ESB is severly lacking these days.

Great read, this thread.

pipe wrenched · May 25, 2008

I'll catch you gents in a few, I'm gonna go watch the Malignaggi/ Hatton card replay as I couldn't catch it last night.

See you cats in a few.

TFFP · May 25, 2008

Have fun, don't forget to catch that clown Malignaggi, had me in tears

majorer · May 26, 2008

PugilisticPower said:

Andrade isn't a B- level pressure fighter.

He's a C- Level pressure fighter with an A++ chin. Anyone who can keep the distance well would stand a chance against Andrade because he's such a crude fighter with no real accuracy, as illustrated by his connect percentages to date against all fighters.

Mundine was a B in physical attributes but never rose past a C in gameplan and putting it all together on the night, clear prior losses before facing Kessler as well as complete substandard competition ever since damages his standing on Kesslers career.

Beyer was shot, even Beyer would admit that. He was lucky to escape with his title vs Bika and had huge complications with Green. It was a good win for Kessler to get but make no bones about it, Beyer would have lost to anyone of about ten fighters in SMW when he lost to Kessler.

Being as fair as possible to Mundine based on his achievements to date, can you seriously give him anything more than B-?

I think Kessler is a solid B. I don't think he's A-, A- doesn't get cleanly dominated at the thing he's supposedly best at - distance boxing.

Meanwhile, a guy like Pavlik for instance has beaten Taylor, Miranda, Zuniga and Zertuche. He's been knocked off his gameplan, near even knocked out and still managed to find a pathway to victory afterward.

Yet everyone takes it as a given that Kessler is better? Remember, this is a Joe Calzaghe who struggled with Bika, wasn't even hitting Manfredo when the stoppage was called and went life and death with a 43 yr old Hopkins in his very next fight

Yet he easily out pointed Kessler, the ease of which he did it was actually shocking, I could see people giving him the fight 10-2, I had it 9-3.

All of the above points to the fact that Kessler hasn't been severely tested in a fight that he has been able to win.
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Oh man. So according to you Kessler was EASILY beaten by Calzaghe. No! Yes Calzaghe struggled with BIka. But you cant use that to anything.

But according to your logic: Bika should be better than Kessler. (if Joe easily beat Mikkel and struggled with Bika.)

But guess what ?

It is not the case. Bika has been Mikkels sparring partner in Copenhagen. And they both know who the best man is. Trust me.

Faetter_BR · May 26, 2008

PugilisticPower said:

The stigma that Joe was taking soft defenses is bollocks. You defend your title twenty times in a division, you're going to have a range of fighters for people to scrutanise.

Tocker Pudwill, sure, that was a guy that could be scutanised but what do you expect when you have to change fighters two weeks out due to an injury? Even Tocker had a title challenge before his fight against Joe.

The "top" guys that Kessler beat, would have problems, big problems with some of the so called soft defenses Calzaghe had.

I would expect Reid, Woodhall, Mitchell and McIntyre to handle Andrade, with guys like Mkertchian, Sheika, Starie and even Veit to have good chances of victory.

And if Siaca was able to beat Mundine, then you've got to imagine the guys mentioned above would all have good shots, they were all far better fighters than Siaca.

Kessler got lucky by facing Beyer when Beyer had nothing left (as exposed by his retirement) and a young Andrade that was even more over-rated than Lacy.

No way Andrade was Top 10 SMW when he fought Kessler, yet he was logged as such.

People don't know much about the history of SMW. If they did, they'd realise the only feesible challenges Joe never got was Beyer and Ottke.

Beyer and Ottke both didn't want a piece of Joe from what I've read, but the competition Joe defeated at SMW was as good as the competition that Hopkins defeated at MW.

Again, this is just a gross understatement of the fighters Joe beat in the earlier years against a gross overstatement of the fighters Kessler has beaten.

This is why I just get a little miffed at people believing Kessler is 100% assured of victory against the Pavliks, Taylors, Mirandas, Dawsons, Abrahams and even Butes.
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You've missed the point completely - Objoctively Calzaghe might have faced good opponents (I dn't agree on your assesments above - but I do think Calzaghe's opponents has overall been ok) - but the fact is that the fact that he defended the WBO-title against handpicked opponents and did it at home will always raise a big questionmark.

Therefore in the general boxingfans view Kessler can surpase Calzaghe - if he does what I wrote.

As for Beyer-Ottke facing Calzaghe - if Calzaghe really wanted to he could have made those fights happen - he could for instanse have dropped the WBO-belt (after all it's only the fouth most respected belt) and become mandatory for Ottke - Ottke actually did fight all his mandatories - not like Calzaghe. The blaim is proberbly not Calzaghe's but Warren's - Warren made more money as a promotor having Calzaghe fight ordinary opponents at home than trying to make the big boys fight... but that's a whole other ballgame.

oh and one final thing - McIntyre would lose badly to a high pressure fighter like Andrade...

And you've got far too much time on your hands

Decebal · May 26, 2008

China_hand_Joe said:

He said similar going into the Hopkins fight. The Calzaghe of Veit I fight is far superior.
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Open your heart to the truth, for verily, I say unto thee, the truth will set you free!

Decebal · May 26, 2008

PugilisticPower said:

Andrade isn't a B- level pressure fighter.

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True; he is a B level pressure fighter.

TFFP · May 26, 2008

bear said:

True; he is a B level pressure fighter.
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:yep

I was fighting the good fight for Librado, PP underrates him. He can't even get in the top 10 :-(

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Kessler could become a better fighter than Calzaghe

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