ketchel vs hagler......

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by shommel, Dec 29, 2011.


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  1. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Go read the LA Times and LA Examiner. They say the same thing. Or are you going to question whether or not they were there too?

    And yes, I'm quite certain that Jay Davidson was there, hence the detailed analysis of his report. Sportswriters had a tendency to show up at huge boxing events that took place in their own city. This was a big one. Or are you implying that he stayed at home and made the report up?

    "KETCHEL LANDED THE FIRST PUNCH".

    That's straight from a primary source.
     
    Surf-Bat, Jan 1, 2012
    Surf-Bat, Jan 1, 2012
    #61
  2. Ketchel

    Ketchel New Member Full Member

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    If Monte Cox, Mike Casey and Tracy Callis to name a few who are (in my opinion) very respected historians are convinced that the "cheap shot" without question didn't happen and they alter their own accounts...then I will change mine.

    But until that time arrives I'm staying with the "Non-Primary Source club" on this topic.
     
    Ketchel, Jan 1, 2012
    Ketchel, Jan 1, 2012
    #62
  3. Ketchel

    Ketchel New Member Full Member

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    They look big to me. Ketchel's arms represents devastating power. :bbb
     
    Ketchel, Jan 1, 2012
    Ketchel, Jan 1, 2012
    #63
  4. Phys

    Phys Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Marv, and he could get dirty too.
     
    Phys, Jan 1, 2012
    Phys, Jan 1, 2012
    #64
  5. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Surely if the sucker punch happened then at least one of the papers would have reported it, right? Why didn't they?
     
    Surf-Bat, Jan 1, 2012
    Surf-Bat, Jan 1, 2012
    #65
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Here's another link to the fight ,again is seems inconclusive if there was anything illegal done. Ketchel was down multiple times which seems odd,but he might just have walked into a big one ,and been groggy.

    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=WH19081016.2.42.3.1
     
    mcvey, Jan 1, 2012
    mcvey, Jan 1, 2012
    #66
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Seriously, what newspaper report is going to say, "The fight began, no sucker punch had taken place"?

    According to The Evening World, Papke had even announced before the fight that he would not be shaking hands before the bell, specifically because Ketchel had taken advantage of him in their first fight. The same article states that Papke invited Ketchel to “come on and fight” before attacking, giving Ketchel every chance to withdraw his extended hand.
     
    McGrain, Jan 2, 2012
    McGrain, Jan 2, 2012
    #67
  8. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The newspaper reports don't say that a dog didn't come in and bite Ketchel on his ass before the fight began either (and that THIS is the reason he lost to Papke). So I guess since it doesn't say anywhere that it DIDN'T happen then it's possible that it did.

    So I'm going to start writing articles and telling people it did. Hopefully future boxing historians down through the decades will read what I've written and start quoting my myth as historical fact. When they're called out on it all they have to do is use our poster Ketchel's tactic and retort "Show me where it says it DIDN'T happen". :think
     
    Surf-Bat, Jan 2, 2012
    Surf-Bat, Jan 2, 2012
    #68
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    LA Herald: "Papke started the first round with a right-swing that never landed and Ketchel put over the first blow of the fight."

    The Evening World: "The bell rang. Coming together in midring the two fighters looked well matched...Ketchel held out his hand to shake, but Papke, who had already announced that he would not shake hands after the bell because of the way Ketchel had taken advantage of the shake in Milwauke, to get in the first blow, held back and fell to fiddling...Ketchel slipped away sideways, still holding out his right hand and with his left poised for one of his famous shifts. Papke rushed and Ketchel immediately sent over his left to the mouth.



    The problem seems to be the wire report, which was re-printed in about a dozen different papers, which doesn't specifically say there is no sucker punch. But why would it?
     
    McGrain, Jan 2, 2012
    McGrain, Jan 2, 2012
    #69
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    There is literally no mention of a sucker punch in the press until the discussion over the rematch begins.

    A rematch wasn't a certainty after such a complete domination, and suddenly the sucker-punch story seems to gain momentum.
     
    McGrain, Jan 2, 2012
    McGrain, Jan 2, 2012
    #70
  11. Grinder

    Grinder Dude, don't call me Dude Full Member

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    I have read about Papke's "sucker punch" but don't believe that is what beat Ketchel that day. It was Papke who was absolutely primed for revenge and Ketchel who was probably too confident. The reasoning is that he beat Papke soon after in a rematch.

    Regardless, Hagler would be up to his eyeballs against a devastating puncher with a very durable chin. Remember, Hagler couldn't KO Duran, who was knocked senseless by Tommy boy.

    Why didn't Hagler ever move up in weight? Think about it because that weighs heavily in this matchup.
     
    Grinder, Jan 2, 2012
    Grinder, Jan 2, 2012
    #71
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