LaMotta and the mob

As for the betting, here's the Ring magazine's take on it (from January 1948 issue, by Jersey Jones):

 

Lamotta was top 5 ranked fighter (reaching number 1 twice) from 1942-1949 before getting his title shot. If he did have the mob fixing his fights for him then he was getting ripped off.

 

senya makes an interesting case that i'd never really thought about before but i can't really get behind it considering the amount of evidence, both legal and circumstantial, that it was a fix.

 

This isnt a debate, apparently its an education. You dont dictate my tone.

I think I explained the case and scenario well enough for you to understand. If not I can use smaller words. Do I think there is room to doubt a spleen injury? Absolutely. Do I think he threw the fight with or without a spleen injury? Absolutely. Do I think that in some magical alternate universe the mafia never existed, didnt control boxing, and didnt bribe fighters and dangle championship belts in order to make boxers jump through their hoops and that in that magical world one of the most durable and tenacious MWs in ring history entered a bout with a Fox and lost it on its merits? No. I think youd have to be pretty stupid to believe that LaMotta had an injury as bad as he claimed and still entered the ring with Fox thinking he would win and able to give a good account of himself. Again, if you are so inclined you can go read the newspapers sorrounding this bout both before and after, the words of his doctor, and the testimony given at the kefauver hearings in addition to what LaMotta himself wrote in both of his autobiographies. If you think any of that makes less sense than the idea that LaMotta just blundered into that fight with an injury severe enough to render him helpless but thought somehow he could win then we can agree to disagree. :-(

 

Why not quote several of the writers who had the different opinion. Fleischer was in the minority and was often criticised for essentially saying nothing while the mob was gobbling up boxing.

 

:good

 

Uhh, what? As Jake said Fox had two things going against him, he couldn't punch and he couldn't take a punch. The few times Jake landed on him he was afraid he was going to topple over and he had so little on his punch there wasn't anything to fake but an injury. This is one of the most "clearly" there is in boxing history.

 

LaMotta was far from needing mob help to win a fight, he knew he would win the title but without the Fox fight he was never never ever getting a title shot so he threw the fight and got the title shot, a fight he was never going to lose and really there was only Robinson who was a problem and Robinson was so big that the mob couldn't touch him, I think they tried once and Robinson laughed at them.

 

The point is that if he had gone along with the mob when they first tried to dig their clutches into he would have had a title shot with Zale much earlier, a fight LaMotta had a great chance of winning. I wish he did tbh because a Zale v LaMotta fight would have been simply incredible, one matchup destined to have been immortal, a fight that goes the distance here is almost a certainty, Jake was not a big puncher and Zale had one of the greatest chins of all time and Jake did too and he would have needed it as Zale was one truly hard hittin MUTHA

It is hard to believe it for several reasons... although they were the mob they knew Jake was an extremely dangerous, wild, volatile destroyer that it would not be easy finding a few thugs wanting to give him a bashing, he probably puts five of them in hospital after 30 seconds of violence. If Jake had sniffed at a fix he would have never been involved again... also why do you need to fix the fight to get Jake a win against guys who are trembling at the knees and dropping smelly stools in their ******** just at the thought of facing the guy... not that the top guys would be that scared but I think all were intimidated.

 

I respect Senya a lot, he does great things for boxing history by being a great researcher and he shares it all with us all, he's a team player and I am happy to take his word that Jake was injured, however I do not for a second buy into what he says regarding the fight wasn't fixed... there is very little doubt that is was a fix.... one fix in the 40's among hundreds and hundreds of farces, he was the only one honest enough to come out and admit it risking a bullet in the head. If Jake was injured it actually would have made the decision to go along with a fix safeguarding further serious risk and we must never fail to understand how important it is that fighters avoid injury.

You are a damn SOB, you are supposed to write stuff I disagree with.

 

You are right about him, he has the attitude that he is always right and that he is somehow better than us other researchers, debating him is pointless, from now on I just read his reply and then I reply only for the benefit of the rest of you, if he is right on a point my silence means i agree.

as to what you say here you did a real good job, it is not our job to TELL people what to think, to give both sides and to leave it to the reader to decide on it, or not, the other job is to make them enjoy the read and that they are informed.

 

The author of the write-up was Jersey Jones, as I stated, but you don't even care to read what I'm writing. Fine, keep that attitude and continue your monologues on any subject without my interruption from now on.

 

If you want to believe everything fighters said in their auto-bios regarding their opponents...

 

That's up to you. As I stated previously, it's a matter of which version sounds more convincing to you.