Langford v Wlad?

Eh? You are being unreasonable. Pulev just turned pro 3 years ago, he just passed his first real test a few weeks ago. I think a Wlad fight will happen in the future....

The set up of Wlad/Brock overlaps Oleg beating Rahman. Promotions for Wlad/Brock started in late August/Early September if I remember right. There was no window for this fight unforunately. Oleg won the title, got an easy first defense in, than nursed his injuries for two years while postponing a mandatory fight with Peter over and over again. That's just the way it is.

If there was only a 5 month window to fight the guy before he fell out of the rankings completely, yeah, I would say his relevance should be questioned.

Yeah, Vitali dragged him out of the gutters a few years later to beat the **** out of him, and he was rightfully criticized for fighting an irrelevant has been.

Sorry, I can't make sense of that last part.

No but it certainly makes Chageav and Haye more relevant.

Sure, he had a solid stretch and was a belt holder. Just not as relevant as the guys who beat him or had better runs during that time like Chambers, Sultan, or Adamek.

Eh? No.

My claim does ring true. Toney was gone after the second Peter fight in Janudary of 2007. Yeah, Ruiz closed as #10 in 2006, and fell off soon after.

Nah, you are just being very liberal with the word if you think just being Vitali's mandatory is relevant.

I guess this is another semantic argument..what is relevant to you? I don't know, staying a presence in the division for longer than a single training camp?

Why are you being insulting? You left Adamek off your list, and in truth, he's done far more than the guys you listed.

I answered this, I don't think there's a clear #2 to Wlad.

 

I tend to look for more constants. Briggs was a splash in the pond, and there was no window for a unification fight to be made with Wlad. Had Briggs got past Sultan, it might have been possible.

Briggs now or in 2005 was/is better than Wlad's busy fights this year? I can't and don't even want to begin....

No, it actually supports my claim: "Outside of Povetkin which is finally happening, I would question the relevance of all those names in regards to the fighters Wlad actually fought during these timeframes."

And Wlad voluntarily fought higher Ring ranked or simply better fighters than these guys were. Subs and Mandatories aside.

I went back on this. I think you can argue Valuev as being relevant, just again, not as relevant as the guys Wlad made voluntary defenses or unification fights against at the time of his heyday.

You are talking about Solis..he was ranked #10 for a week just prior to the Vitali fight. He showed up fat, fell down, and has disappered. If you want to count that as a guy Wlad missed..I don't know what to say.

I know its bizarre. Imagine, a fighter who actually stayed in the top 5 for several years, stayed busy, beat other contenders..its really bizarre.

If your counting Solis, Oleg, and Briggs as relevant fighters to this era....yeah, sure its inaccurate.

I'm the one having to explain the specifics to you as to why some these fights didn't come off. I think I've followed the division a bit more closer. I serioiusly doubt you even knew Oleg was injured for two years, and just saw his name in the rankings, checking it as a name Wlad didn't face. Sorry, if that's not true but if your going to insult me, be prepared for some returned fire.

 

Bah, I will leave it at this. You can argue the definition of "relevance" and list as many fighters as you want he missed.

But the truth of the matter is Wlad beat the best fighters from 2006-2013, and almost anybody you can name probably lost to one of the guys he beat. End of discussion, on my end. Sorry for the thread derail.

 

You could make broad generalizations or you could examine the situation more closely and see Valuev was never that attractive of an option at the time he was "relevant."

The problem was he wasn't a top 5 strap holder when the fight was doable. While I don't think King would have ever allowed it, Valuev and Wlad were tentatively negotiating a unification fight in late 2007 if I'm not mistaken. Wlad got past his mandatory, Valuev lost to his in Chageav. Chageav got sick, so we got Wlad/Sultan in 2008 instead for the first unification fight in 9 years or such ****.

By the time Valuev got his strap and ranking again in the summer of 2008, the long awaited Wlad/Povektin was a done deal but of course Povetkin pulled out at the last minute, and the IBF subed in Rahman. Wlad than spent 2009 getting dicked around by Haye, before finally getting a fight with Chageav. The best fight at the time that could possibly be made, no question.

Haye/Valeuv was immediately put together..Valuev retires. While Wlad defended the Ring crown against the highest ranked available opponent in Eddie Chambers.

So shut up about Valeuv already...yeesh. The Yeti had his chance, he lost to Chageav, than he lost to Haye. Was he relevant to Wlad..no. Was he a face in the division, sure, why not. Relevant to the era as a whole perhaps, but just not a relevant opponent that Wlad ever needed.

There's just one problem, Wlad spent almost all of 2009 jawing with Haye over tv contracts and waiting for a fight that would get canceled at the last minute. The one fight he managed to make was against the top contender behind his brother for the Ring Title. In this situation was Arreola relevant? No, god no.

Wlad managed to make two fights in 10. Once against the highest ranked available opponent in Chambers, the other his IBF mandatory and old rival Peter. Boystov was just a prospect who managed to sneak into the bottom of the rankings for a little bit, he's not relevant to the Champion.

Again, Haye/Wlad talked and talked over contracts again in 11, before the Superfight between the top Heavies was finally made. It ended up being the only fight either man had time for that year. This isn't ancient history, man.

After being thrashed by Chambers, Dimitrenko at this time had a fairly worthless run as Euro Champ, ducking fights with bizarre hidden videos of him having weird seizures, before being sent packing for good within a year. Nobody needs this guy on their resume anymore.

Well yeah, Wlad has been keeping busy with tuneups and mandatories as of late while he waits for his contenders to sort themsleves out.

Don't kid yourself and think Pulev was available at this time. He's a 3 year Pro who just stepped up this year. Give this one some time. Use your head, your a smart guy. You know a prospect this promising isn't getting tossed in with Wlad this early.

Nah, Solis is irrelevant. Anyway you define it. He did nothing but make an ass out of himself and disappear. This guy has to rebuild himself.

I've game my reasons, they are sound and logical. I'm afraid actually beating other contenders and hanging around the ratings for more than a few months gives him a better case for being a missed relevant opponent than guys who dropped the ball and vanished in the blink of an eye.

I'm not revising ****, buddy. Sure, it would have been nice if Oleg/Wlad unification happened in 07, as I said late 06 wasn't happening. But in reality, Oleg made a voluntary defense against a nobody and had an obligation to fight Peter if he was to keep his belt. After an endless string of training camp injuries, Oleg eventually got stripped of his title, and Peter had to fight McCline for the Interim. Peter was then forced to fight the returning Oleg for the real belt. It was a huge mess that tied up Peter and saw Oleg sit out his entire time as a ranked belt holder. Wlad by this time was already unifying with Sultan, so the injured obligated Oleg just wasn't a person of interest anymore.

In the end, there are only so many fights that can be made at a given time. This is the modern era, the average HW Champion fights 2-3 times a year. And injuries or bad negotiations can reduce this to even feweer fights. Negotiations drag on for months, unification is damn near impossible. Understand, we aren't saying Wlad faced every single ranked fighter in the last 6 years, or even every single fighter that graced the top 5 at its most Helter Skelter moments, when we say he beat all the relevant guys.

What he did do was ultimately fight all the guys who stood out and established themselves as the best possible opponents at the time the fights were ready to be made. Back from Wonderland with Atlas, Povetkin is the last real missing piece as Adamek's stock has already fallen. Sure you could go back and say.."but Toney in 06, Valuev and Oleg in 2007." but it just doesn't matter. Peter, Sultan & Chageav, even Thompson, ended up being the more meaningful fights in retrospect.

Pulev is part of a new generation of up and comers. Interesting to see how him and his peers will herd out.

 

Wlad should have fought Audley.

 

There's not much to debate. At least 9 out of 10 postors reckon it's a foregone conclusion, Wlad ought to win handily. :good

 

Dunno. I'd guess it would reach about 18 pages.

Actually, I do think Wlad-Langford was discussed plenty earlier in this thread but the statements were almost unanimous. hence not much debate.

 

Joe Louis' choice of opponents was also criticized in this thread....I'm still lost on that one. At least Wlad's name is in the the topic title.

 

I think it was more than that, but the reply proves my point that Farr was robbed in the USA. The 1930's had lots of gambling problems, some off score cards, and fouling / DQ problems.

I saw no record of it being broken. How could Donovan score Louis vs Farr 14-1 for Louis?! His scoring in the Godoy fight was way of too. There are films of both fights, so can see for ourselves just how bad he was. Hmmmm, Donovan who was cozy with Louis promoters and the people at MSG had some horrible cards in close fights for Louis. Are aware that Walcott's camp protested the Donovan selection, and he had to be removed to make the 1st match a go? Are you also aware that one of Louis managers was mob connected and went to prison? Don't you see the smoke here?