Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Big Ukrainian, Jan 12, 2016.
Larry from early 80's vs Sonny from Patterson fights.
Who wins and how?
Holmes would school the overrated bum
I take Holmes to assume superiority in a battle of jabs early on. If Larry is smart,he boxes his way to a UD. If, however,Holmes allows himself to be caught up in a slugfest,then one of Sonny's big rights could stop him.
What credentials have you got for calling boxers bums ??
Liston just doesn't have the speed to do it here, and his hook, not his right, was his dominant power shot. Holmes out jabs him in a bout with few fireworks.
Sounds about right, Larry could use the ring and stay away from Liston's hiok
I think Liston takes him.
Few if any fighters could beat Liston h2h.
He is very underrated because of the Ali fights. Don't let them fool you.
Larry on points.
Early in his career, his right to the liver, left hook to the head was a potent 2 punch combo.
Liston has Holmes on reach by 3 inches (isn't that unbelievable?). In my opinion Liston had the better jab.
Although I think Holmes would have control of the ring for the majority of the fight, I think Liston eventually catches him.
I side with Liston. Holmes is one of the few guys I give a genuine chance against Sonny which shows how highly I rank both guy's abilities.
The battle of the jabs would be interesting. Sonny's is more authoritative and carries much more power and dominance, whereas Holmes has a quicker, sharper jab. His is between Sonny's and Ali's. He'd sometimes paw with it to set up the right hand too. Holmes could win rounds with the jab, Sonny could win the fight with it, by KO. Holmes also had a super quick right hand in his ****nal, along with incredible powers of recuperation and good lateral movement. The thing with those powers of recuperation, is that he needed to use them a little bit too often for me to pick him over Liston. Shavers was a huge puncher but let's not pretend he was any kind of skilled boxer. He shouldn't have hit Larry in the first place. If Shavers could nail him once, Sonny could do it several times. He also got shaken up by the likes of Witherspoon and Snipes. He came back at them, but if they can shake him up and almost stop him just imagine what Sonny Liston left hook could do.
Now Sonny couldn't nullify Holmes' jab completely, I'm not sure anybody could, but with his underrated defensive head movement (as displayed against Williams often under appreciated quick left hand) he wouldn't be eating Larry's left glove all night like some limited brawler. His own jab would be making hard for Larry to establish anything. Holmes knows Sonny can hurt not just with either hand but with pretty much any punch.
I see the fight being there to win for both guys. Holmes can't get too punchy or Sonny knocks him out of the ring, so Liston wins rounds by being assertive and Holmes nicks his rounds by being quick and moving. I don't see Liston getting stopped. Larry could hit but Liston at his best could go the distance with a broken jaw. He was stopped when way, way past his best and totally exhausted and against Ali, but that's another story in itself.
In the 11th, with Holmes having used his legs for as much as possible during the fight (the only sure fire way to beat Liston) he stands still for a moment too long and gets sat down by a long Liston left hook that would knock out most guys. Holmes rises, groggily, but he's up. The difference between most guys who hurt their opponent and Liston is that most guys swing swing swing with everything they've got. A guy as brave and with the survival instinct of Holmes can avoid that. Liston didn't. He kept his bombs precise and rarely missed/wasted a punch when he was performing an execution and I think he'd show this against Holmes. Liston KO11.
Holmes wide as you like UD
If you compare him with average people and amateurs then yes. He is a tough guy. If you compare him and his resume with the best. He is a mediocre guy. Clay made him look a complete bum.
did you box ??
I think that Liston would systematically break Holmes down, having many problems en route, and win late either by stoppage or decision.