Larry Holmes vs Usyk

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by RJJFan, Mar 22, 2023.



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  1. Levook

    Levook Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Plenty of people have Holmes ranked in their top 5. It ain't exactly an unheard of idea, as you are trying to make it sound. I'm not much of a list maker, but I'd probably have him around there, myself. Where do you rank him?

    Holmes is one of the finest boxers that has ever worn the HW championship belt, with a keen intellect. He would train/spar accordingly, and whup the southpaw, simple as that.
     
  2. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Plenty of people who don't know that they are talking about. Despite his 20 "title defenses," he beat remarkably few of the best of his era. The resume isn't there. Boxing is not a statistical sport.
     
  3. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I would add that jabbers always have particular trouble with southpaws because it is a struggle to time one jab over the other, and the southpaw always has more experience at it. Holmes' best weapon is virtually negated.
     
  4. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    An I am not going to argue too much with you, because I respect you a lot, but as I noted above, I think they do, because jabbers naturally struggle with southpaws. It becomes a battle of timing, and the southpaw almost always wins. The effectiveness of Holmes' best weapon is devalued.
     
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  5. rinsj

    rinsj Active Member Full Member

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    Exactly. Mike Tyson lost to Henry Tillman in the amateurs but knocked Tillman out in the pros. And in one round I might add.
     
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  6. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ha!

    Look at you.

    I’ve countered your claims with TWO GREAT examples, yet I’m all of a sudden talking nonsense and being dishonest?

    Brilliant.


    BS claim?

    No.

    Again, I have provided you with TWO FACTUAL examples.


    You think that it’s absolutely absurd that Holmes could have won, on the grounds that Holmes had never seen a southpaw before.

    Yet both Wlad and James Toney, fought and beat two GREAT southpaws, who were PRIME, without having faced any before.

    No claims.

    Those are the FACTS.


    Yes, I AGREE with you, in that Larry would have had a huge shock. I agree with you 100%.

    However, you are completely overlooking two OTHER factors:

    1. Larry is an ATG HW.

    2. Usyk has never fought or beaten ANY fighter as great as Holmes, or any who also possessed his style.


    So writing him off completely, would have been very silly.

    You have to look from everyone’s perspective, not just from the one that suits your agenda.
     
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  7. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Really?

    You want to go down that road, without analysing anything and applying context?

    Okay.

    Then we’ll go down that road.


    Usyk has beaten no great fighters at HW.

    Usyk has only fought 4 pro fights at the weight.

    Usyk was almost beaten by a non great fighter at CW.


    Holmes could have handled it.
     
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  8. AntonioMartin1

    AntonioMartin1 Active Member Full Member

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    Ive never seen Usik but, and maybe its because Ive never seen him, I think Holmes too big?
     
  9. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Same exact size. Usyk is actually slightly bulkier at this point
     
  10. ConfusedGuy

    ConfusedGuy Member Full Member

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    Surprised to see Holmes is winning this. There's a very vocal group of people on this site that seems to think Usyk is already the h2h heavyweight goat.
     
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  11. AntonioMartin1

    AntonioMartin1 Active Member Full Member

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    Oh ok. I still never seen Usik fight so my opinion is based only on seeing Holmes fight, but Holmes is top ten Heavyweights of all time easily if not top five. Based on that Ill take Holmes by unanimous decision.
     
  12. VOXDEI

    VOXDEI Member Full Member

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    I think you are being made to look foolish mate.

    "Holmes is great and, on top of that, he's great. Didn't you know that Holmes is an ATG? He's going to whoop Usyk because, you know, he's great, didn't you hear?"

    @Redbeard7 is offering actually concrete claims and isn't even disputing Holmes' legend, only that he'd lose a H2H time-travel scenario.
     
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  13. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Get real.

    It’s ME who has applied LOGIC here, where I’ve given him factual examples, and where I’ve advised him to look at ALL factors, and not just one that suits his argument.


    You obviously have comprehension issues.

    Making me look foolish?

    Ha!

    By what?

    By claiming that it is ABSURD for anyone to choose Holmes, based on the fact that he never fought a southpaw before??

    Have a word with yourself ffs.


    Concrete claims?

    How is saying that it’s absurd to claim that Holmes would have won, a concrete claim??


    It’s me who has AGREED with him, in that fighting Usyk would have been a huge shock to Holmes, as he’d never faced a southpaw before. I have acknowledged that on numerous occasions, both on this thread, and on the Frazier-Usyk thread.

    However, once again, an objective fan would look at EVERY factor.

    They’d also specifically look from Usyk’s perspective.

    They’d look at his experience. His resume. The stylistic match up of the fight etc.


    Now I haven’t even claimed that Holmes would have beaten him. At no point have I said that. I have just said that although Holmes never fought a southpaw, he was still a great fighter. And although that Usyk is a great fighter, he hasn’t fought or beaten anyone as good as Holmes, or any fighter who possessed Holmes’ skill set and attributes.

    It’s me who’s been reasonable and objective.

    The guy you are supporting is a clown.

    Go and look at the other thread.

    Apparently, Usyk would have humiliated Mike Tyson after just 4 rounds, as Mike didn’t have an engine.


    If you agree with his opinions, then you better go and help him out.

    Because at the minute, he’s really struggling.
     
  14. Jackman65

    Jackman65 FJB Full Member

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    Argue all you want, at least we can all agree Usyk would not have ducked Holmes. He would have fought him in Larry’s backyard if necessary.

    Fury would have talked **** and made threats. Offered Larry a 20% piece of the pie and backed out when Larry asked for a reasonable share of the rematch. Fury would then accuse Holmes of ducking him.
     
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  15. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Kindly tell me where I’ve said that he’d have whooped Usyk?

    Again, I haven’t even claimed that Holmes would have beaten him.

    Not once.

    So you are the one who looks foolish.