Leonard's decision to rematch a less than full strength Duran

Angelo said it took them a week to persuade Ray that if they set the date quickly they could put Duran on the back foot.

 

Sounds right. I've deffo read similar.

 

I don't think it matters a great deal. The point is that, whichever one of his team came up with the idea, there was definitely an intent to get a less than fit Duran in the ring. Some people have either contended otherwise or, at least, suggested that Duran's camp was fine, regardless of any attempts to disrupt Duran's readiness. So, thank you for the clarifications.

Sorry, but I think you're overreacting here. You called it a "big statement" and all I've said is that I'm not sure it is. I mean, what is his walking out supposed to signify? Jacobs had run out on Leonard before, over money. That's a known fact. It's not spin.

Did he go back, after 1980? Well - Yeah, he was only too happy to join the Leonard camp again for a couple of bouts, after Leonard got the SD over Hagler.

Post-Duran I, Leonard was quoted as saying something along the lines of him wanting two more fights, one against 'opponent X' and the second against Duran. Presumably, he was talking retirement even then.

So, it does seem that a good period of time passing, before a Duran rematch, was his initial thinking. But, does it matter if, either way, he ended up agreeing with Trainer and Dundee in seeking to accelerate the match, with the clear intention of wanting to undermine Duran's chances against him?

Eleta has made it quite clear where he thought the risk presented itself and that was in Duran taking a tune-up bout and losing. Thus, them all missing out on a king-sized payday.

It all becomes clearer when one thinks of it in financial terms and the money that was at stake.

Ah - the old 'He's done it so many times before, he couldn't possibly have hit a brick wall this time", eh?

No one but Duran and his inner circle knows for sure what his weight went up to, after Montreal. But, what we do know for sure is that Duran never competed at Welterweight again, after New Orleans.

So contracts don't matter?
I notice you've failed to respond to any of the questions raised in the section of my post associated with the comment I made regarding the contract.

I haven't argued against any of the points you make here. I've consistently said that Duran wasn't prepared going into that fight. So - what's new?

The questions I was raising, related to Trainer calling off negotiations in September. No doubt they resumed in the background, but there was nothing cast in stone until October. You might not think this matters but, the fact is: no contract; no fight - and, until October, there was no fight.

As per Dundee's boast: "For four months, we did countless things to try to upset Duran", I think it reasonable to suspect that the drawn out haggling over what should have been a relatively simple negotiation, played a part in forming those 'countless things', used to undermine Duran's mindset.

That's the second time you have used that term to describe reasonable responses.

Fobbing off? Nah, chap. I seek substance in the points being made and, if I can’t find much of it, then I park those points at the back of the queue of relevancy - sometimes way, way back (assuming they are relevant at all). You can call that fobbing off, if you want - I call it efficiency.

So, Arcel bigged up his fighter in the run up to a fight, did he? Behavior of such rarity, I am sure.

 

That's a nice piece of dark romanticism about your boy Leonard, there^.

It goes without saying that I disagree with the suggestion that "Duran would never have beaten Leonard again no matter what shape he got into".

Of course, it's pure speculation and we will never know for sure.

The reasoning you have provided for your assertion; that Leonard became a better fighter after Duran, relies almost exclusively on his use of "mental warfare". Which, given the strong opinions you have put forward on Duran's lack of preparation, must surely mean that it is difficult to tell how much of that victory was down to Leonard's new-found Jedi powers and, conversely, how much of it was down to Duran having done himself a mischief; not forgetting the contributions of Dundee and Trainer.

If Leonard fans want to incorporate the pre-fight tactics of him and his team, such as mental warfare, into his becoming a better fighter then that's their choice. I don't look at it in that way.

Whether or not they serve a purpose towards the end game, I separate the out-of-ring, psychological antics from the art of boxing itself. On that basis, I don't think Duran faced a lesser version of Leonard than he would again, five months later (or, would have, had a fight between them taken place, any time up until Leonard's first retirement in '82); not in any clear-cut way, at least.

(I do, however, think that Leonard faced the worst Welterweight version of Duran, in New Orleans.)

You can attempt to downplay the significance of Leonard's win over Benitez all you like, but prime-for-prime, I'd say it has to be second only to his victory over Hearns in '81. Benitez going on to achieve more (or "securing his own legacy", as you put it) only solidifies that case, in my opinion.

I don't think the number of opinions favoring Duran has any bearing on this question, either. These guys' forecasts had no bearing on how each man actually fought their fight and, in terms of where each fighter was in relation to their peak, what actually happened is what counts.


I can't really say much more on the topic than I already have.
Duran was not fit going into the rematch with Leonard. It doesn't really matter why that turned out to be the case (and there's likely several reasons behind it) - it just was the case.

Duran quit and paid the price for doing so, while Leonard got the deserved win. But, I think both the fight and the victory are often misportrayed and relatively overrated, when the circumstances are taken into consideration and one considers the quality of other contests that both guys were involved in.

 

I think we are both at this point already. We've got out what we wanted and probably have a dozen times in various threads in the past. A pleasure as always mate even if it is one of the rare times we see a lot of things differently.