That being said, was there ever a cruiser that could ever beat him? The only competition that comes to mind is Evander Holyfield. Other than that, nothing.
I used to class him as the goat cruiser but now I'm not so sure. I think I favour holy over anyone if the weight is capped at 200.
Prime Marciano losing to an 18-0 fighter...not...sure...i can hang...with that. Also - do you think Qawi was better than Marciano? Because he took Holyfield to hell and back in his cruiserweight prime. Let Holyfield take the pounds to the ring and some of that Riddick Bowe experience and form and you might have a different fight. But I think Marciano is the guy, if one exists, to break Holyfield in his younger years, and failing that I suspect he would outland him to take win ugly.
NO, it's just that every fighter today should be compared to the historical divisions veiwed at, at least 1 division UP, and the HWs are S-HWs.
In the first fight when he was green yeah but by the time holy unified the belts he was amazing. Even as a he he could have made the cw limit with a 24 hour weigh in.
I guess. If you're talking about a Holyfield that never made 200 making training for it and making it. I tend to look at the fighter the last time he actually made it.
I get what you're saying there but I can't see holy draining and were it not for money he'd have remained there for a long time I reckon. Even until the late 90's he was like 215. Even lighter divisions can cut a stone the day before and then put it back again.
Yes, Dempsey, and Joe Louis at their peaks UNDER 200 pounds.... Why ? Dempsey according to a poll conducted of the 200 boxing figures who saw Dempsey at his peak, virtually unanimously chose Dempsey to beat Marciano H2H. This poll was taken when Rocky was champion,and was at his height in popularity...Wouldn't these boxing experts who 30 years before, saw Dempsey, know more than some pundits today 55-85 years later? Of course I say...Dempsey was as strong as Marciano [murdered much bigger men], hit with great power with two hands, no one ever rougher or tougher, NEVER CUT on face, and most importantly hit much, much faster and more accurately, whilst Rocky whom I saw and admired missed half his punches. A no, no, facing a Dempsey or Joe Louis...Please watch the 2nd Tunney fight when an old, rusty Dempsey hit Tunney 7 blows in a row, all on the button, so darn fast, even in slow motion it seems quick...After watching boxing all my life, one virtue is most important with two punchers. HAND SPEED...And that was Dempsey's and Louis's forte...Speed kills...
Agreed. classic sized heavyweights are naturally 190-210 under conventional training. marciano was what 189lb? under conventional training even ali weighed lower than 200lb for a title fight. a super heavy is a different animal and one part myth anyway. heavyweights began to build themselves up but most could make 210 quite easily, even if some are taller. cruiserweight was invented for fighters who traditionally started out as tall middleweights that would fill out and at one time might match a small classic sized heavyweight but in modern times would be giving away too much weight. marciano was not one of them. he would have size advantage over the billy conn's, the bobo olson's, tommy burns and bob fitzsimmons type of guys. those guys would fit into cruiser weight but not marciano because he was always a natural 190 guy with old training. he did not grow into the weight he trained to match the guys of his day. the natural 190 pounders fight at 230 today, not saying marciano would be that heavy but i am saying many so called 230 pounders would be 200lb 40 years ago.
Between 1952-1956 when Marciano was champ...if you were over 175 lbs...you were a heavyweight...he topped out at 189 lbs...and...he trained himself down to 189 lbs. When Rocky retired in April 1956 at 49-0,he weighed over 200 lbs. Marciano always maintained his weight between fights...but after beating Archie Moore in Sept.1955...he lost his desire to train...and the 200 lbs was his walking around weight at that time...and when Charlie Goldman saw him before his announcement,he told Rocky that he looked bloated...and Rocky said he wasn't even taking his long walks anymore...Goldman knew Rocky was done.