Let's settle it once and for good. Do you think Wilder has a legitimate body of work for a champion?

Dreadful record as champion. Clearly ducked and avoided the best.

His best win at the stand career wins to date is Jenning (7 years ago) and Martin (who he went life and death with and dropped twice including a pucnh).

Wilder next best win is Duhaupas- says it all.

There currently nearly 10 guys in the divison with better records at present and about 20 guys in the divison 8 would back to beat Wilder.

 

Fury had a trilogy with someone who used to be a meme on boxing forums.

 

This. They can’t have it both ways. Fury’s wins over Wilder don’t mean much if Wilder was a fraud.

 

I am glad you also noticed that the Liakovich fight was a dive with all the theatrical twitching. I have had people argue that I don't know combat sports and post clips that look nothing like it as evidence that it was legit.

 

The other issue that I forgot but your post reminded me is his fights with Ortiz.
The issue being who had Ortiz fought?
We measure someone by who they've fought as this provides us context. If you then have two fighters who never fought any of the other top guys then the context simply isn't present. This is why although I like Fury it's a fallacy that he's the best of this era. yes he's unbeaten but his resume is pretty thin with best wins being Vlad. Wilder. Whyte and Chisora. So he's untested against Joshua and Usyk and the 'he's too big" narrative is also a fallacy until he beats them. We don't measure of what people think will happen we go off what has happened.
So Wilder's best win against Ortiz is questionable as neither one has fought any of the other top guys in the division other than Wilder against Fury.

 

Scuba mos definitely was fixed.. But Liakhovich???

 

Ortiz is pretty untested. His best win is Jennings I guess, but Jennings wasn't all that and never went on to achieve anything so what does that mean exactly?

It's probably way too late in the day but I want to see how he performs against Ruiz. If he gets blown away then Wilder's resume is going to take a massive hit. But if he beats Ruiz then it puts Wilder in a different light I think. I hope the fight doesn't fall through as it's going to provide clarity one way or another.

 

No.

Wilders resume as you have clearly outlined is SHITE. Cherrypicked an old unfit Ortiz and still got almost knocked out. Cherrypicked a fat coked up Fury and robbed him. The only reason he fought Fury again is because his cherrypicking time was up and his reputation was at stake after the blatant robbery. Then he got flattened. Many in the top 10 - 20 could beat Wilder

 

I get what your saying but there's many moving parts to this.
Firstly Ortiz is old probably older than he claims and hasn't looked stellar the last couple of fights.
As for Ruiz I don't think he's the fighter he was after beating Joshua. the money and reaching that goal of becoming champ meant that the rematch and his fight with Arreola Andy looked awful.
So it's a decent scrap and it may provide some information but due to the reasons I've given I can't take too much from it as I think both are compromised and damaged goods at this point.

 

Everyone is a fraud in till they get punched in the mouth then get back up and fight to victory or to the death.

Wilder proved he is a warrior. He is underestimated. I have no doubt he'd put a hole in Whyte and AJ.

Ortiz was old sure but he has legit skills and power, he was putting it on Wilder...then he tired and Wilder staunched him. In the 2nd bout Wilder let Ortiz dominate again but was more cautious knowing he would fade...he didn't fade he took his eye off the ball for a moment and went to heaven.

Wilder's management failed horrifically.

 

As someone who's been a consistent critic of Ortiz for having done incredibly little with his career, and of Wilder for having wasted a golden opportunity to make great fights and build a legacy (something every major beltholder has because everyone good wants to take the belt off the champ)... No, no, it doesn't matter how badly Ruiz blows out Ortiz because it's abundantly clear from the Martin fight that Ortiz is simply not fit enough to fight anyone remotely decent.

To be clear, if Ruiz is remotely close to his best then he's a contender (or if you want to be particularly uncharitable a gatekeeper), whilst Ortiz resume paints him as never having been more than gatekeeper level - so we're talking about a contender against the ghost of a gatekeeper... That tells us remarkably little.
If Ruiz isn't in good condition either then the outcome tells us just as little - it's a largely pointless fight.


Context matters - this won't devalue Wilders wins over Ortiz, and it shouldn't.
(Having said that, Ortiz ridiculous levels of hype have a significant number of casual fans thinking they mean more than they really do for Wilders resume).

I think it says it all about Wilders resume that Usyk had a better signature win than Wilder in only his second fight (Chisora has achieved a good bit more than Ortiz despite the losses IMHO).

 

Honestly, the bomb squad is more like a bomb boy scout troop.

 

That's true but the Wilder and Fury fanboys elevate the other because take the trilogy out and both resumes are thin with Fury at least having Vlad and Whyte on his resume.

 

Poor resume. Decisively lost his biggest fights.

 

For a beltholder? Sure. Look at all the people who have touched a belt.

He's way above average for that group.

Obviously everything about boxing in at least the last 12 years (but more like the last 35) is disappointing. But if we're going to trundle on still watching it and talking about it we may as well set ranges for bad, average, and good that correspond to the level that we actually see in the ring.

If we want to say, "does he compare in level of opposition to the HW greats of the past?" then no he doesn't. But they're not filming any more fights of those guys so evaluating the present is also important.