Let's switch Willie Pep and Sweet Pea

Reports? You need to let your eyes do the talking for you. If reading reports were so reliable, I'd not be watching present day fights for myself. I'd be living off everyones opinions on this board and various boxing sites.

 

good point. seeing is believing as they say.

But going by that we cant rate Greb and we cant get the magic of him as we have to read to find out about him because as far as we know he could have got gifts all the time.

I read the reports as they are the best available sources on some of the fights. I try to read afew and try and get the message of it from a few.

Obviously its not the same but its the only thing i can do. But it can be unreliable as you can imagine it greater or worse.

 

Thats one of my all time fav boxing masterclasses & I suppose my `Pep is Pea`s master` comment was stretching it a bit, spur of the moment bull**** but I do think Pep was better, both are in my top 10 favourite fighters ever tho :good

Ps. Poor Ramirez

 

Im one of the few who believe the available footage of Pep shows him to be at least on the same level as Whitaker - & we know thats past prime footage.

 

I've actually argued (correction: wasted my time) with people who believe Whitaker was highly overrated and would have easily been beaten by Mayweather. These are people who have only seen Whitaker fight in his 30's against Wilfredo Rivera/Diosbelys Hurtado, fights where Whitaker did not look so good.

Here's a brilliant quote someone came up with:

"try to accept that whitaker is not all that, hatton can go tru whitakers resume (win fights) undefeated..."

:rofl

I guess it's somewhat of a similar situation as it is with Pep, since there are only films of him past his best days, except in this case the people who don't rate him just haven't bothered to actually watch Whitaker in his prime.

 

Thats why I take people's long and exstensive "P4P" lists with a pinch of salt. I see them as uneven ground when some of the fighters they rate is based upon viewing them, and others like Greb based on what they assume.

"He fought over 300 times, has good names on his record, and people back then say he was awesome. Yeah, I'll stick him in my top 5 of all-time"

 

Agree TGA. Well said :good

 

good point i cant argue

thats some stupid fans

i think proper boxing fans rate Whittaker correctly

 

For me, I give Pep a lot of respect for his great consistency. Beating guys week in and week out as he did for such a long time is quite remarkable. Not many have done anything quite like that. Robinson, B. Leonard, Chavez, Duran, McFarland and Ross being amongst those (that spring to mind) that were able to do something approximating what Pep did. I give him the edge on Whitaker in this regard.

I think from the footage that is available we can pretty confidently surmise that Pep had better footwork and probably would have had better combination throwing ability.

I think we're pretty safe in assuming that Whitaker holds the edges in the jab department, the in fighting ability and arguably he was the more resilient too, though that can be arguable given Pep's great stretch of time at the top taking on so many quality fighters.

Whitaker achieved more at more weights, but I think Willie Pep would have been able to beat a McGirt equivalent at say lightweight, and could probably do as good a job against a DLH equivalent at lightweight too. Could he beat a Chavez equivalent? Off the footage of Pep available, you'd have to question it, but I don't think we can draw a conclusion on it unequivocally. Could Whitaker beat a lightweight equivalent of Sandy Saddler when he is past his prime? Doubtful.... What do others think about this?

 

agree with almost all of that


Whittaker did have the better jab i admit that now.

As for Chavez vs Pea thats a tough one but i really dont know i would favour Pep but theres a doubt in my mind.

As for Saddler vs Pea i think he found that in the form of Tito

PS

Robbi love the new avvy reminds me of that Basilio vs Demarco pic

 

They say that Saddler could be beaten by a great outside boxer though, a pocket men gets beaten up though. So lightweight Whittaker can beat him for me, feel free to correct me though i'm not the most schooled on this one.

 

What one?

 

it was Hearns and Hagler

 

Ok.

 

Yeah... if Whitaker slips just a bit I think he has hell with Saddler. Whitaker was an excellent infighter, and could hold his own for moments, but if those moments turn into anything more than mere moments Saddler is going to go to town I feel.