Lewis and Marciano hypocrisy

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BlackCloud, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders NSB defector Full Member

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    Andy says he is targeting the 250-255 lbs range for his next bout. That's still heavy, but he must have turned quite a bit of fat mass into muscle with his new training regimen.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'm interested to see him. I think he should get Parker again.
     
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  3. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders NSB defector Full Member

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    For sure, he's in the mix at the top and he might have it in him to recapture his titles. I wouldn't mind watching him whoop Wilder.
     
  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Andy Ruiz is a good fighter. He showed that against AJ.
     
  5. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is what I find frustrating.

    If Andy Ruiz can be a fat tub of lard, and still beat the best fighter in the world, what might he do if he actually had a spartan work ethic!!!!!!!!
     
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  6. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders NSB defector Full Member

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    I agree. Thats why his comeback is intriguing. He needs to stop Arreola, a decision isnt good enough.
     
  7. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I mean that happens with the best 140 guys moving up to the glamorous 147 division or 154 guys moving up to the prestigious 160 division.

    Cruiserweight could be more exciting with A) more promotion B) less splintered titles C) more of the best fighting the best. It's already a division casuals are unfamiliar with that leaves people confused when you mention it out loud ("what is that car lingo"...?). Even if heavyweight didn't exist these 3 issues would still hold back the cruiserweight division.

    Perhaps extending the limit from 200-220 could make things easier on men who are at that peculiar range of 5'10-6'1 who often end up carrying too much mass for light heavy and end up lacking the size to keep up with the behemoths at heavyweight. It could also help to change the name and call heavyweight "super heavyweight" where all the body builders and flabby plodders can slug it out to their hearts content.
     
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  8. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well it's hard to argue with Ruiz' success so far. Beating a relatively dominant strong prime champ like Joshua in such a devastating way is one of the most impressive title winning performances in decades. He has to shake off the ring rust in his tune up against Arreola and then he said he wishes to face Wilder.

    If he can beat Wilder, it's really hard to say what weight he "should" be at because that would mean he has beaten 2/3 of the best fighters of his era. Even if Wilder beats Ruiz in a rematch and/or Ruiz loses to Fury, beating 2/3 of the best fighters in your era is better than what 99% of boxers in history have accomplished. And if his career turns out that way then his best weight is whatever the average is for his best performances regardless of how grotesquely overweight he appears.

    The only way to really speculate on how much weight Ruiz should lose in the boxing sense would be if he were to win a fight against a decently skilled competent opponent whilst he weighed significantly less than his usual gargantuan 260-270 pound self.
     
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  9. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    There was a time when any man who couldn't get under 154lbs had to fight at heavyweight, and thee have always been guys in the Hasim Ramhan size range.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  10. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    When was this? Light heavyweight has been around since my grandmother was in high school.

    When did I dispute that Rahman sized men have always existed? I was simply saying that ever since the creation of cruiserweight and the steady gradual increase in size of the average heavyweight, men in the 5'10-6'1 range have been the odd men out having a hard time finding their niche. The ones who can easily make cruiserweight stay there or cut even more and become weight bullies at 175. The ones who have a bulky and strong build end up needing to put on more weight and struggle with the behemoths.
     
  11. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The point that I was trying to make, is that the current weight classes, are much more lenient than the previous regimes.

    They are almost looking for a weight band, where a man can win something today.

    Once upon a time, you just had to fight the much bigger man, if you wanted to get anywhere!

    Your use of the term "weight bullies" is ironic in a historical context.
     
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  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    This would be a dream come true. Super heavyweight is really a new weight class.

    I agree. I hope history does not erase this revelation.

    in this day and age, I am starting to think he might have to stick with what works for him as an individual. I mean what is aesthetics? If Andy kicks joshuas butt looking the way he did so what? He was clearly the better man. I just hope history won’t erase what he did.
     
  13. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    well it's the digital age and so many things are practically written in stone with how many things are recorded on youtube, boxrec, articles, etc so it would be hard to pretend like Ruiz was a nobody and change the narrative.

    Only way for that to happen would be is if Ruiz ends up going 0-5 constantly losing to the best fighters of his era and people will regard him as another 1 hit wonder like Buster Douglas. So it's honestly up to him.
     
  14. ecto55

    ecto55 להחזיר את ממלכת דוד Full Member

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    There's been a lot of discussion about Marciano recently....and he now seems to be regarded in today's terms as a cruiser, Lt Hvy or even a 168lber. I can see the point - people are getting larger.

    Does this mean that the lore about Rocky training himself down maniacally to his fighting weight from your usual pasta-eating eyetie doughboy has been dispensed with?

    To me, with Marciano, that was always as key an ingredient as it was with Hagler - as that phenomenal work ethic and genuine ring conditioning enhances most aspects of a fighter's fight performance. How many fights did Ali win because of his mysterious drop-tank of extra energy in the latter rounds?

    Has this idea about Rocky been disproved, or is it interpreted as Weill / Goldman / media hyperbole or do we now just think it isn't important?

    Curious to know, and yes, I haven't been following the conversation closely so apologies if this is old ground.
     
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  15. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    A lot of the mythology doesn’t hold up under scrutiny:

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    This content is protected
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021