LHW picture between 1916-1926

lufcrazy · Apr 10, 2013

Lord Tywin said: ↑

In 1917 Greb beat both Levinsky (having Levinsky out on his feet in the final round after a knockdown) and Dillon. He beat Miske in 1918 and 1919. He split two fights in 1920 with Gibbons. Fought on even terms with Kid Norfolk in 1921. Dominated Gibbons and Tunney in 1922.

During that same period Gibbons had only two marquee wins at 175: Greb (which was avenged) and Levinsky.

During that same period Miske lost to Greb, Levinsky and Kid Norfolk (twice to each fighter) and those were the biggest fights he had at the weight. I dont see any way anyone can say Miske could ever have been called the best in the division.

During that period Norfolk lost to Clay Turner twice and Gus Christie depending on which source you use. He beat Miske and fought on even terms with Greb though and supposedly was ducked by Gibbons. In fact its pretty safe to say he was being avoided by a lot of fighters which makes it difficult to place him.

Carpentier only had two real fights at light heavy during this period, his knockout of Levinsky and his loss to Siki.

My point is that Greb was at least as good, if not better than anyone in the division until Gene Tunney finally moved ahead of him in the mid 1920s. There were fighters like Gibbons and Norfolk who could fight on even terms with him over a series or on a given night but even they couldnt be said to be "better" or able to defeat him consistently enough to be termed his master.

After Tunney moves up the picture gets muddled again. Delaney was inconsistent. He also had a lot of injuries, and was supposedly being moved by the mob. Berlenbach was being protected and carefully matched.

Loughran had a nice unbeaten streak during this time but it coincides with a drop in his level of competition as Greb dies, Tunney, and Delaney move up in weight, and Berlenbach fades out of existence. He beat Young Stribling who was also in the midst of nice unbeaten streak but Stribling's level of competition at this point was almost abysmal.

Loughran was probably the best for a while but I think the division really slipped after the Greb/Tunney era. Neither ever held the title but while they were in the division Id be willing to bet they would have been a favorite over Berlenbach. Delaney may have been seen as being able to give either a good fight but I dont think he beats either one.
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Good post. My only concern is the value of a nd victory. Some guys literally just fought to survive the last few rounds so it isn't always indicative of how a proper fight plays out between the two men. I tend to credit the winner for giving it his all, but I don't hold a loss against the loser because in reality they didn't actually lose.

TheSouthpaw · Apr 11, 2013

lufcrazy said: ↑

Good post. My only concern is the value of a nd victory. Some guys literally just fought to survive the last few rounds so it isn't always indicative of how a proper fight plays out between the two men. I tend to credit the winner for giving it his all, but I don't hold a loss against the loser because in reality they didn't actually lose.
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Very well said!...:good

lufcrazy · Apr 12, 2013

I'm going with my instinct from the earlier post. Levinsky-Gibbons-Greb-Tunney and then once Tunney moves up, we go back to the lineage.

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LHW picture between 1916-1926

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