Life Guardsman Shaw: A "Could-Have-Been" Champion

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Aug 29, 2009.

  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Ironically, wars are the bane of combat sports everywhere. The First World War killed off an entire generation of young boxers, quarterstaff players, fencers, and French savateurs. The Second devastated European boxing and prevented Joe Louis from defending his title during his peak years.

    It's the same thing with the Napoleonic Wars during the Golden Age of bareknuckle boxing. In 1815, a potential champion named John Shaw died at the battle of Waterloo.

    Shaw was a scary opponent by early 19th century standards. In an era when the biggest heavyweights (Molineaux and Cribb) scaled about 190 pounds and stood under 5'10", Shaw was 6'0 1/2" and 210 pounds of muscle--in part thanks to the exercise he got in the army with an overweight broadsword and dumbbells. Shaw was pretty skilled for a man of his size, but he was especially known for his hitting power. A lot of people were picking him to destroy the champion.

    Shaw's record is actually VERY good considering the small number of fights recorded. Ibeabuchi-esque, if you like. He annihilated Ned Painter, who would later go 1-1 with Tom Spring (the champion after Cribb), beat Molineaux in a public exhibition/match, and smashed Barclay Allardice (the best amateur boxer in England and an all-around athlete) in the mouth so hard during a bout with gloves that the latter had to get his teeth reset. At his peak shortly before he went off to Belgium, he was very difficult to hit without getting hit with a counterpunch, and he'd adopted a cautious, fighting-on-the-retreat style that relied on a good left hand.

    Like I said, though: he died at Waterloo (and apparently took several French cuirassiers with him). Ah, what might have been...
     
  2. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Guys?

    Anybody interested?

    Ah, well...

    (*Cue "Wladimir Klitschko vs. Muhammad Ali" thread*)
     
  3. JimmyShimmy

    JimmyShimmy 1050 psi Full Member

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    I found that particularly interesting, actually!

    I get the sense there were many capable guys with the ability to mix it with the best back then but ended up in a dump due to the times. Hell, look at Belcher, he was attacked on his way to the Bartholomew fight - that could of been the end of him, instead he laced the three reprobates.
     
  4. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Glad to hear it.

    Belcher's eye injury was really tragic for boxing. Imagine the kind of wins that a two-eyed Belcher could have assembled: Cribb x2, Pearce x2, Gully, and perhaps Molineaux. Talk about a resume. :shock:

    And then there's the fact that he would have filled out a little bit as he got older, making him a match in size for most heavyweights up to Patterson.

    How would you fancy Shaw's chances against Cribb if he'd survived Waterloo, out of curiosity? (You can read more about him on Boxiana via Google Books, if you're curious).
     
  5. JimmyShimmy

    JimmyShimmy 1050 psi Full Member

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    It's definitely a good thing, argumentative wise that Belcher lost his eye (poor bugger). I think if he had not then he would have been the undisputed best. The write-ups on him describe this dude who was a perfect combination between strength and 'science'.

    I’ve had a nosey but can’t find Shaw in Boxiana, save for a footnote on him throwing Cribb…was he also known as John Snow?
     
  6. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    He's under "Shaw, the Life Guardsman" on page 383 of the Google Books version of Boxiana. Here it is in full:

     
  7. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Also, he appears to have sparred with Tom Belcher at the same time that Belcher sparred with Molineaux and Gully. The account follows:

    Belcher must have been a monster in the ring. Too bad he didn't have his brother's success under London Prize Ring rules.
     
  8. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    His match with Painter:

     
  9. JimmyShimmy

    JimmyShimmy 1050 psi Full Member

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    Very nice read, thank you!

    What is strange and perhaps the most intriguing aspect about Belcher (Jem that is) is the pace at which he fought - far faster than any other Bare Knuckle fighter. Pearce and Cribb were both steady operators, as it seems Shaw was despite the fact Jem influenced him.

    I get the feeling there was far more emphasis on punching when a little smaller - Mendoza, Belcher and Spring than the bigger guys who could punch and block well but looked to close and then cripple you on the floor with some kind of body slam.

    Shaw seems to have been quite the handful, although I don't know what to make of his set-to with Molineaux, who I have heard went completely off the rails after his second fight with Cribb. Still, Molineuax must have still been strong (only a year had passed), so kudos to Shaw.

    I would like to know about the speed of these bigger men and if speed was something particularly focused on for the pugilist.

    Thanks again!
     
  10. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    thanks enjoyed it.

    dont know too much so cant comment