True, but Liston has a better jab than both, is better (offensively) inside than both and has harder individual punches than Tyson and possibly than Lewis. I don't want to talk about the Ali fights with you! Come on, what is Hollyfield's plan?
I would dispute that Liston's jab is better than Lewis. Lewis' is faster, longer and he proved he could win a fight solely with it (Tua) as well as against master boxers (Holyfield). When did Liston's really prove his jab against a tough opponent? Machen maybe, although Machen was hardly a jabber and more of a defensive fighter. Holyfield's plan is to capitalize on Liston's speed. Time his jab and counter it with his own or a right hand. Holyfield was very fast on his feet (and with his hands). He is a great counter puncher with an excellent defense; he fought Tyson, who is much faster than Liston, in close range yet Tyson couldn't consistently get through with his punches. Lewis did (Holyfield was a bit past his best), but even at that, he couldn't make it the butcheries than Grant, Botha, Golota et all fights became. Holyfield should counter him, stick and move, make him follow, tie him up on the inside. Bank rounds and try to win a decision. That is, if Liston's bully mentality didn't give up on him. Holyfield would never be intimidated.
Listons Defense IS much better then Bowes Bowe was one of the worst defensive HWS of all times the man could'nt get of the was of a jab to save his life . With just a tad worse Chin Bowe would have suffered multiple KO losses. There is a reason he avoided most big punchers of the 90s.
Lewis did indeed put on some master classes with the jab. I've also seen him pawing with it. With the Liston jab, you know what you are getting, a horrible shot that will bust you up and is very accurate. Lewis' jab is affected by his fight plan and by his opponents defence. If you insist on Lewis' jab at its best being better than Liston's I will not neccisarily argue with you. If you bet upon Lewis' jab being better than Liston's on fight night, that is a bet you will lose more often than win. But Liston is not as slow as all of that. Besides which there is a serious power deficit. Hollyfield will get hit if this is the cornerstone of his plan, I wonder how many he can ship in order to land before he has to shell up? Given. Timing the jab will be made very difficult though, because he MUST make it miss. Get hit with Liston's jab, especially whilst planting/having planted for a counter and the jab will almost certainly cause you to lose balance. If you lose balance within range against Liston you will be hurt in the immediatly future, as my mother says. I don't know why she says that, but it fits here. Note, I do not think Liston will KO Hollyfield. Holly will hear the final bell. But IMO he will have to sloooooooooooooow the action down to do this, but he will get hurt in the process. Speed, punching, throw them both in the river - Tyson was not strong enough to contend with Hollyfield at that range. Liston will manhandle him. Don't you think? Also, Tyson has great natural balance and lean, but Liston understands these concepts. At this range a KO is possible, so I don't agree with your Tyson parallel at all. I don't accept that Liston's bully mentallity ever gave up on him, as you know. I agree that Hollyfield has no fear in him. This is the test though! You make some nice observations, and some that I don't feel are sensible. Bottom line, it isn't enough.
Liston had a jab that was authoritative enough to break Evander's rhythm and power to occasionally stun him in between Evander's sporadic and rhythmatic flurries. Evander's speed will more than likely befuddle Liston but I believe that, interestingly enough, that as the fight goes longer Liston would have landed enough leather to slow down a fading Holyfield, drop him in the 12th round and possibly stop him in the 14th round.
Interesting how you think that Liston would win in the late moments of a 15 rounder, given that he never went beyond 12, whereas Holyfield did.
Gotta go with Liston. That LONG jab would be busting Holyfield up all night, and I don't think Holy can beat Liston in any one area. He'll get hammered by the jab at long range and manhandled inside - Liston was probably one of the strongest HWs ever in the clinch, especially for a man of his height/weight. Close, clear UD for Sonny.
No, I'm not inferring that Holyfield didn't have off nights. I was merely adding balance to the equation, so to speak. Seen them all, more than once. No surprises here.
Cant believe a guy who lost 2-1 (1 by ko) to bowe has so many votes to beat liston, crazy. Liston would be far too strong for holy & I voted ko for sonny over holy.
It doesnt mean he can't go beyond 12. I think he'd win late based on his body of work throughout the fight. Holyfield though durable, and well conditioned can fade down the stretch. I think would stop him late.
Nobody mentioned Liston's possible use of "juiced gloves" vs Holyfield flagrant head butts. The two might settle the issue in a "second rumble" in the alley later.
Bowe is a class above anyone Liston ever faced with the exception of Ali, who made him quit twice. Besides, the third win was more due to Holyfield having conditioned himself wrongly, took too much HGH or whatever.
h2h i am almost always inclined to pick liston.......thats the case here as well. liston by late stoppage