Liston vs. Smokin Joe ???

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Waynegrade, Sep 16, 2008.

  1. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    No disrespect to Frazier as he's a great fighter, but if Liston rocks him, which he will, I honestly can't see a situation whereby Frazier is gonna be able to clear the cobwebs. Liston is a great finisher. Frazier will be tasting the canvas in the very early running and will be there for the 10 count or saved by the ref circa the 4th round or so.
     
  2. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

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    'Old' man here, well...55. Dad had me a boxing nut by around 59 or 60.
    Patterson my all time fav. This fight has always intrigued me.
    ALL of Sonny's early KO's (contenders) were virtually against guys that came right at him. Williams (it's the only way I know how to fight) and Floyd (I've got to silence the critics and appease my fans) just walked into trouble.
    Joe was always a slow starter, but Sonny came out looking to 'measure' as well. The first two rounds could well dictate the outcome here. Joe seemed to be more prone to the right but how would Sonny react to the first big left hook that found its mark? I am ignoring the "Sonny quitter" talk and the "Joe can't take a bomb" talk here.
    Sonny didn't dance and jab, it was right there and IMO would find Joe early and often but Frazier WOULD get his licks in. Rounds 3 and 4 would be the key in my opinion after an early semi-bomb chessmatch.
    My guarded take?
    Sonny lays some big wood on Joe circa round 4-6 that shakes him terribly and may end it there, if not both tired warriors battle on with Liston prevailing (tho I don't think a 15th round would ever happen)
    Bottom line? I don't count Joe totally out.....
     
  3. Ted Spoon

    Ted Spoon Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Frazier would have a far greater chance of toppling Liston than he is being given credit for.

    For a start, Joe is not going to have to worry about the 'push n' clobber' technique of Foreman's. There is a jab for him to get under and plenty of target.

    It would not be pretty for either man. Frazier had an awesome resolve which he was unable to display when ran off the pitch by George; with Liston there is a way.
     
  4. round15

    round15 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Joe should have never had to worry about Foreman pushing, shoving, grabbing his shoulders and clobbering him in the process.

    If Mercante had done his job properly in that 1973 Jamaica title fight, Frazier, even in the poor condition he was, wouldn't have been KO'd in two rounds by Foreman.

    Take nothing away from what Big George did, but he got away with plenty of illegal tactics.
     
  5. Ted Spoon

    Ted Spoon Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Foreman certainly made the shoving part of his technique to cancel out the option of Joe later smoking, but it was Foreman's job to get away with it and Mercante's to put a tab on it.

    In the end it was hard to penalize a tactic over such an emphatic performance.
     
  6. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Liston's quit jobs (both of them) were absolutely disgraceful. There's no excuse for them.

    It took a combined 42 rounds for Ali to make Frazier cry "uncle".

    Liston couldn't go more than six in any one fight.

    IMO, there's no way a guy with that little heart/resilience beats Frazier.
     
  7. Waynegrade

    Waynegrade Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It sounds possible that Liston moves out and sets the pace with his jab. As he establishes his jab, it opens Joe up for his booming right cross and lethal power. A brutal and precise finisher, Liston would pour it on in an effort to put Joe away and do it early. You could make a case for the fight going down that way. Here is why I would be inclined to pick `Smokin` Joe. First, Liston was a measured attacker(Patterson doesn`t count) he wouldn`t come out like Big George. Foreman used his superior strength to push and muscle Joe, and then unload his bombs. Joe was faster than given credit for, he doubled his hook really well, he could shoot a decent jab. And over the years he developed a pretty good looping right hand. He would crowd Sonny, not let him breathe. Consistently work the body, and throw a high volume of punches. I think Liston would have a hard time dealing with roughness inside, the amount of punches he would have to deal with. And the almost crippling affect of Smokin Joe`s body attack. In a war of attrition, I don`t think Joe Frazier`s heart and will to win takes a back seat to anyone. I don`t think Sonny had the wherewithall to take what Muhammad did in Manilla, and come back to win...If Sonny can`t get it done in two rounds. It becomes a slow steady `Smokin` Joe beatdown... IMO
     
  8. BlackWater

    BlackWater G.Wash. Full Member

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    Liston KO5. It wouldn't be very exciting. He'd get mauled.
     
  9. Moe Faux

    Moe Faux New Member Full Member

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    Indeed, Ali could have even quit himself that night. Well, at least that's what he said.
     
  10. Moe Faux

    Moe Faux New Member Full Member

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    As if they were both legit, come on. :huh
     
  11. Waynegrade

    Waynegrade Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The first I feel was legit. If you looked at Lison`s face after the fight. Ali was slowly chopping him up. Even with Liston`s corners disgraceful liniment episode(eye burning material) he still couldn`t lay a glove on him. Liston knew Ali had his number that night. And given what we know now. He was NEVER going to knock Ali out ...
     
  12. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    Yes, but after what Cooper managed to do I don't think Liston could have possibly thought Ali was never gonna be knocked out.
     
  13. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    Ali wouldn't have quit. He likes spinning a good yarn. :good
     
  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Would you say the Cooper performance may have had Liston come in a bit overconfident and underdone?
     
  15. Maxmomer

    Maxmomer Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don't know. Wasn't he ready to quit after he was blinded in the first Liston fight?